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      06-29-2018, 04:02 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinM View Post
If this is all true, good news, especially the MT.

As much as I enjoy RWD, I have to say the F80 seems to be already challenging enough to put the power down. It will be interesting to see how M enhances traction on the next M3.
True. Too bad if the M xDrive will not be offered! Otherwise it's all great news.
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      06-29-2018, 04:13 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by ThugzZ BunnY View Post
please tell me one reason that anyone would prefer the dct over the 8 speed? neither has a clutch so the drive the same. I don't understand why people cry about this. also the 8 speed is more reliable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThugzZ BunnY View Post
please tell me one reason that anyone would prefer the dct over the 8 speed? neither has a clutch so the drive the same. I don't understand why people cry about this. also the 8 speed is more reliable.
Have you driven a PDK-S car? As good as AT transmissions have gotten, they still don't compare to the best-in-class dual clutch transmissions.
Yes but you're referencing the best dual clutch - which is found in a Porsche, not a BMW. Everyone bemoaned the M5 ditching the DCT for an 8 spd automatic and so far the reviews have been positive so I think it would be safe to assume the same outcome for the next M3/4.
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      06-29-2018, 04:16 PM   #47
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Did it say the M340i is coming in 2020 also? That's a long ways away especially when I want someone else to eat the first couple years of depreciation.
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      06-29-2018, 04:25 PM   #48
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I am cautiously optimistic that I will be getting a manual transmission G20/G80 now. I really wanted the M340i since I prefer sleepers, but the M3 is a great car and at least I'll be able to get one last pure ICE car with a manual transmission.

In vain hope that this isn't the last gen with a manual, I hope more people put orders down for brand new M3 6MT over the ZF 8HP. While I think the ZF 8HP is overall superior to the DCT for a road car, if you really bemoan that move, man up and order a 6MT M3.
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      06-29-2018, 04:40 PM   #49
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They really need to stop with the water injection rumor. Not happening on the base M3, not practical for daily use.
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      06-29-2018, 04:42 PM   #50
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C63 getting rear wheel steering, never actually thought about that. Makes since if the tech trickled down from AMG GTR. That system works wonders.
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      06-29-2018, 05:13 PM   #51
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rupes View Post
All sounds like positive improvements except the size. I get it's just a little bigger, but are people really buying 3 series for extra rear seat legroom and a big trunk? Wish this trend would reverse...
I'm one of those folks Sadly, I'm 6'2" with long legs, so space behind me is at a premium - and I've got 2 kids now. No one could sit behind me in my E90, and my 5-year old is just about out of space behind me in my F30 now. An extra inch or two of rear legroom would be pretty sweet.

Don't forget, BMW makes the 1 and 2-series now for those who want something smaller.
Don't forget .. BMW has made a 5 series for decades for people who need a vehicle larger than a 3 series.

PS. There is not both a 1 AND 2 series in the US.
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      06-29-2018, 05:22 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKL View Post
Regardless of the fact that the "regular" auto transmission gets good reviews, I am shocked they would get rid of DCT. But 6MT always, anyway
The current Longitudinal Getrag M DCT has reached torque limits.
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      06-29-2018, 05:28 PM   #53
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The floating rear caliber. WTF. Will they offer discounts for Brembo?
Sometimes this done to put more stress on the front brakes during testing.

Good eye though.
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      06-29-2018, 05:29 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkhm3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PKL View Post
Regardless of the fact that the "regular" auto transmission gets good reviews, I am shocked they would get rid of DCT. But 6MT always, anyway
The current Longitudinal Getrag M DCT has reached torque limits.
And I guess so has their contract w/BMW.
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      06-29-2018, 05:30 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThugzZ BunnY View Post
please tell me one reason that anyone would prefer the dct over the 8 speed? neither has a clutch so the drive the same. I don't understand why people cry about this. also the 8 speed is more reliable.
I have both the zf 8 in the x5m and the dct in the m3.

The drive experience is drastically different.

I have posted numerous times already, but the main points are

1. no immediate skip shifts. 3 gear downshift on the zf is 7-6-4, on the dct it is instant 7-4th.

2. zf8 downshifts can be rough, and smooth, it is inconsistent and depends on the speed and the rpm of the engine. the dct is almost always smooth. This is in S3 mode for both cars.

3. torque modulation- the zf will modulate torque to save the tranny on occasion, there is a noticeable dip in power during transitions. the dct snaps gears consistently.

4. heat- I have overheated my drive train 3 times on the x5m. I have never overheated my dct on the m3. The zf will simply ignore commands once this threshold has been passed. You will get a drivetrain malfunction on your display if prolonged. I would be interested to know if the new m5 sustains long track times without overheating the zf8. Hopefully it has better tranny cooling.

5. shift speed- on 1 gear requests, the zf is actually faster than the dct during normal below redline shifts. During WOT, the dct shifts harder and snaps gears, the zf will be more modulated- again both in s3.

zf also manufactures the PDK for Porsche which I have had the pleasure of driving, and the PDK is amazing and by far the best transmission. The devil is in the details and if you don't care, then it doesn't matter- but there is a clear difference between dual clutch transmissions vs torque converters.
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Last edited by dkhm3; 06-29-2018 at 05:47 PM..
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      06-29-2018, 05:31 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThugzZ BunnY View Post
please tell me one reason that anyone would prefer the dct over the 8 speed? neither has a clutch so the drive the same. I don't understand why people cry about this. also the 8 speed is more reliable.
The "i'm jumping ship if its not a dct" posts are my favorite. BMW DCT really isn't that great and the new AT is basically a step up in every regard but people are really fixated on this one particular issue.

I currently have a DCT in my F80. Its great at full tilt, ok overall but pretty shitty when it comes to just day to day driving.

If you are sold on the DCT go drive a new porsche with PDK and you'll realize how our DCTs can still leave a lot to be desired.
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      06-29-2018, 05:34 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
C63 getting rear wheel steering, never actually thought about that. Makes since if the tech trickled down from AMG GTR. That system works wonders.
rws is old tech ... not sure I'd want more complexity
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      06-29-2018, 05:35 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ORIGIN M. View Post
And I guess so has their contract w/BMW.
There are no other longitudinal mounted dct's currently in the market, so bmw would have to develop one with Getrag or ZF in order to make one.
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      06-29-2018, 05:36 PM   #59
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Hope they keep the production in Germany so we can continue to be doing ED
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      06-29-2018, 05:37 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BwoodBMW View Post
The "i'm jumping ship if its not a dct" posts are my favorite. BMW DCT really isn't that great and the new AT is basically a step up in every regard but people are really fixated on this one particular issue.

I currently have a DCT in my F80. Its great at full tilt, ok overall but pretty shitty when it comes to just day to day driving.

If you are sold on the DCT go drive a new porsche with PDK and you'll realize how our DCTs can still leave a lot to be desired.
Getrag's dct' is definitely at least 1 generation behind pdk in terms of smoothness in auto mode.
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      06-29-2018, 05:56 PM   #61
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The current rumors are that the next gen C63 AMG is going to be hybrid-electric. It'll be heavier than the G80 M3 for sure though. I just hope that the G80 M3 is going to use a reworked version of the S58 and will sound nothing like the S55.
Is there a production version of s58 which needs to be reworked?
I assume u meant s55. And I agree, better sound is the only missing component in f80, however it is still not that bad, still m sound IMO only ill M....
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      06-29-2018, 05:57 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Calvin36 View Post
Nice! 6mt with rear active steering!? Amazing. But no extra noise leaving the tailpipe! Wins and losses. Can't wait for it nonetheless!
What makes you think no extra noise?
To avoid the new exhaust noise regs, all they have to do is just make it louder all the time stock.
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      06-29-2018, 06:05 PM   #63
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Automatic is a killer :/
Then get a manual.

DCT is just a fancy automatic anyway.
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      06-29-2018, 06:09 PM   #64
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My only concern is growth of this chassis, in length and width. The 3 series keeps growing.
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      06-29-2018, 06:29 PM   #65
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Looking forward to the final verdict on weight. So far, all good news.
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      06-29-2018, 06:37 PM   #66
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ORIGIN M. View Post
And I guess so has their contract w/BMW.
There are no other longitudinal mounted dct's currently in the market, so bmw would have to develop one with Getrag or ZF in order to make one.
That's why i bought one while they still exist.
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