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      01-18-2019, 10:31 AM   #23
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So it looks like the MT will only be available for the "base model" M3/M4. I don't know how I feel about that. It's great that an MT is even offered at all, but I generally like a good "all-around" car with upgraded speakers, and some nice options such as lights, comfort access, etc... Hopefully there will be options packages for the Pure model.
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      01-18-2019, 10:33 AM   #24
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So is that 6MT limited to 480Q or will it have some room to handle the engine mods you know people will want to do?
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      01-18-2019, 10:38 AM   #25
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I guess I'm the odd ball who can't get past that grill/front end and find the specs irrelevant due to that.
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      01-18-2019, 10:39 AM   #26
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Cool

I'll take my M4 Coupe with M xDrive!
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      01-18-2019, 10:46 AM   #27
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When will these be available?
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      01-18-2019, 10:55 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegetable View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastiano View Post
I’d like to see the new G80/82/83 with BMW’s 4.4L V8 rather then a possible water injected engine from the GTS with between 450-475HP. Who wants to add distilled water every couple of fill ups? When Mercedes-AMG C63S gets redone, which is already a little past 500HP, I’m sure it’s going to get a significant bump in HP. In the end the new G80 will be just as quick as the AMG despite it all. I’ll take mine in RWD please.
Well, since we are wishful thinking. I'd like to see a new D&P injected twin turbocharged 4 liter V8 G8X making 600 HP with on the fly AWD, 35MPG, and a 3400lb curb weight fully loaded. AS it stands the AMG S might have more HP than the F8X, but it's hardly faster.
Plus the m3/4 power numbers are probably super under estimated.
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      01-18-2019, 10:55 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dethsupp0rt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vectors2final View Post
Those HP numbers with regards to the competition in the segment aren't going to get it done unless it goes on a massive diet.
~480 HP with AWD will get you into the 11s stock easily. What other competition is there? C63S has ~20 more horses, but it's heavy and still RWD. RS5 is heavy and has less power.
RWD 425 HP got into low 12's. I bet with AWD and 60 more HP this will do 11.6 at 122 +\- How much more do people need?
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      01-18-2019, 10:57 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by RowanBuds View Post
Why oh Why can we not get 6MT/M-AWD?

This is the sweet spot that will likely have me pony up to order another one but without giving me that combination new and 480+ out of the box, there's a lot of other used options likely to be begging for my benjamins.
Probably because high rpm launches would shred the internals.
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      01-18-2019, 11:05 AM   #31
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This is incredible. You all still bitch and this is exactly what you wanted. Once again this forum never ceases to amaze.
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      01-18-2019, 11:09 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddien123 View Post
ZF auto is good but it's not a DCT and it still drives like an auto.

6MT for me or M2C with a 6 speed.

It's such a shame because their DCT was so damn good.
Have you tracked the current M5 with 8AT MxDrive? It was stunning and impressive on the Ring for 2 days with BMW M last October 2018.

Personally, my F83 ZCP has a stage 2 tune over 515 HP/500 torque, even with the GTS DCT software, the DCT is so jerky in gears 1-3– that I'm looking forward to the G83 ZCP AT MxDrive, but will probably lease the M8 coupe in between M4 verts.
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      01-18-2019, 11:11 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vectors2final View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dethsupp0rt View Post
~480 HP with AWD will get you into the 11s stock easily. What other competition is there? C63S has ~20 more horses, but it's heavy and still RWD. RS5 is heavy and has less power.
Not when the car is going to probably push 4000+ lbs after the AWD is added. I could buy that argument if the weight stays the same.

Going this route doesn't widen the gap in the segment. Mercedes and the like can easily surpass this in their next iterations. Who knows maybe I'm wrong, but this last generation was a toss up for those looking at the competition.
They already said it will be lighter than current one which is about 3600 lbs.

Assuming that's the RWD version the AWD won't be more than 3800 lbs (modern AWD parts add less than 200 lbs) which is lighter than all competition.

I was pretty set on a X3M but with this news and possibly a M4 GC with AWD I will probably keep my F80 a couple more years (2016 with only 18,000 miles)
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      01-18-2019, 11:11 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Probably because high rpm launches would shred the internals.
Must be the reason that the 6MT 911 Turbos are RWD. Or the reason that the 6MT Gallardo's were RWD too. Maybe the same applies to the R8-10's with the gate.

I dunno, seems to me that there's a vacant spot in the AWD Manual sedan market that's been wide open since the departure of the S4 6MT's. I am one of those who would love to see it filled, and would as history dictates, vote that choice with my wallet - if only I were given that option.
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      01-18-2019, 11:16 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RotorOver View Post
So is that 6MT limited to 480Q or will it have some room to handle the engine mods you know people will want to do?
BMW refuses to admit how much torque their manual clutches can really handle. Look at the 500+ and even 600+ ft/lbs of torque people are putting through stock F80 clutches even with R compound tires, doing lots of launches, etc.

My personal record with factory BMW clutches is stock E90 328i with destroyed clutch after letting 1 friend borrow my car (major thank you to BMW for covering this under the free maintenance, I NEVER would have expected that but it was extremely nice of them), E82 135i running 420+ ft/lbs for 45,000 miles with zero slip, E92 M3 supercharged w/ around 400-420 ft/lbs of torque with zero slip (tons of drag launches, multiple track days, etc), and now my current F80 M3 makes well over 500 ft/lbs of torque and the clutch is having zero issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RowanBuds View Post
Must be the reason that the 6MT 911 Turbos are RWD. Or the reason that the 6MT Gallardo's were RWD too. Maybe the same applies to the R8-10's with the gate.

I dunno, seems to me that there's a vacant spot in the AWD Manual sedan market that's been wide open since the departure of the S4 6MT's. I am one of those who would love to see it filled, and would as history dictates, vote that choice with my wallet - if only I were given that option.
I agree and you're right, launching an AWD car is very hard on a manual clutch. I also agree that I would personally love my next M3 to be manual with M xDrive. I love that they're offering a "Pure" version of the next car but for me, the M3 is at its best when it does every single thing well not when it's only focused on sporty driving so I'd still want the nice leather, nice sound system, suspension that can be relaxed for boring everyday driving, etc.
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      01-18-2019, 11:16 AM   #36
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Sweet!

But that " M3 Pure " name.... meh.... sounds like it will become M3 P... or M3 Peeeeeee.. etc.
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      01-18-2019, 11:18 AM   #37
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This will upset the strippers around here, as the Pure version will be detuned— be interesting how many of the dying 6MT enthusiasts order the 8AT/MxDrive.

Tuner beware, a BMW NA Field Tech personally informed me a few months ago that BMW AG is onto the flash tunes that detection software for tunes is being installed into the DME's for the current engines, as there have been way too many warranty claims as it has been suspected tunes have caused the issue— will be easier to decline claims. I'll will not flash tuning in the future.

There is zero market for a wagon M3, the upcoming X3M will fill this niche. Just pipe dreams.
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      01-18-2019, 11:20 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RowanBuds View Post
Why oh Why can we not get 6MT/M-AWD?

This is the sweet spot that will likely have me pony up to order another one but without giving me that combination new and 480+ out of the box, there's a lot of other used options likely to be begging for my benjamins.

because lease car..

what was the last AWD BMW that had a manual transmission... the 318ix ... ? 335 ix.. ? both cool cars but the differential location and placement and sizing and packaging... etc..
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      01-18-2019, 11:29 AM   #39
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i hate these clown reports.... would much rather just consume the information from our insiders on the site (the accurate kind)

I cant see water injection on a regular production model happening, it would be absurd for a daily commuter to have to maintain a water tank. Even more so in below freezing weather it is disabled. Will probably appear again for the CS and CSL. We will learn the power of the new S58 when the MX3/MX4 full details are released.

Pretty sure "manual being on the entry version only and down on power" info has been around for a while. We do know that at some point there were 6MT/xdrive versions testing so if you want that combo... write BMW. Look at the M340, the USA is the only market getting RWD.

What I think is that "entry" nuance is getting crossed between different dialects and games of telephone as one writer copies info from another. My bet is there is not really a special manual only model, instead when you add up "less power, no competition level, no xdrive option, and none of the autonomous drive aid features will be available due to the manual" the 6MT itself limits the options, not BMW going out of their way to limit the manual model
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      01-18-2019, 11:29 AM   #40
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"No 6 speed can handle more than 480lbft"

What? Someone should tell Cadillac, Ford, and Dodge.

And if it comes with navigation and goofy touchscreens, it's not Pure. Hoping to see those deleteable.
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      01-18-2019, 11:32 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clemenza View Post
"To underline their position as totally immersive hardcore slide-masters, the Pure editions are set to get restyled aprons front and rear, their own wheel design, an optional standalone signature paintjob (unconfirmed for the UK), special fabric and alcantara upholstery, colour-coded cabin trim and bespoke instrument graphics. Slightly cheaper and focused, the Pure versions could have what it takes to become the M division’s real McCoys."

Two words about this.


FUCK. YEAH!
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      01-18-2019, 11:36 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RowanBuds View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Probably because high rpm launches would shred the internals.
Must be the reason that the 6MT 911 Turbos are RWD. Or the reason that the 6MT Gallardo's were RWD too. Maybe the same applies to the R8-10's with the gate.

I dunno, seems to me that there's a vacant spot in the AWD Manual sedan market that's been wide open since the departure of the S4 6MT's. I am one of those who would love to see it filled, and would as history dictates, vote that choice with my wallet - if only I were given that option.
Can't speak to them but the M3 isn't a $200k sports car. It wants to be a solid DD and at a "reasonable" cost and reliable. These are, at the end of the day, do everything cars. 911 turbos, etc for the most part get used more sparsely. I also imagine they know that the M3 crowd is more likely to abuse the car.

I had a 335 x-drive with a 6MT and did a couple of high rpm launches at the drag strip. Could not imagine doing that too often.
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      01-18-2019, 11:40 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
"No 6 speed can handle more than 480lbft"

What? Someone should tell Cadillac, Ford, and Dodge.

And if it comes with navigation and goofy touchscreens, it's not Pure. Hoping to see those deleteable.
Agreed on the 6-speed comment.
BMW just doesn't want to go "all-in" so-to-speak with the manual transmission anymore.
Of course it's possible to develop manuals that can handle for than 480 lb/ft so it's not a matter of technical [im]possibility, but a matter of BMW's lack of interest to develop one.


Regarding infotainment, that ship already sailed with the E9x M3.
Luckily, those are still very affordable in the used market, but finding one sans iDrive and other creature comforts will be tougher.

Even the F82 M4 GTS had an iDrive screen, so if that's any indication, even more 'hardcore' G8x M3/M4s down the road will probably not shed the infotainment screen.
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      01-18-2019, 11:41 AM   #44
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I'll take that non-comp M xDrive 8AT (surely just as good as DCT) in 2 or 4 door guise thank you very much. Seriously thinking about ED in 2021!
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