[EXE46]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I think his thread has/had merit because he finally had the opportunity to experience the car, so he shared his perspective. The problem with forums is that any criticism is met with contempt, often from the same people that criticize other platforms. It's not like he was some random person who joined the forum just to bash a G-Series. He has been a member on this forum for some time.

I get that but even then doesn't mean much. When I had my E46, I didn't see the need to venture on the E90 forums to bash the successor. I knew it was an upgrade in many aspects especially speed but I decided I would skip that generation regardless and I didn't do that because I thought it was inferior.

The F30 was deliberately skipped due to being inferior. The only saving grace was that we could still get a manual transmission whereas now we don't have that option. G20 is leaps and bounds above the F30 and it's the only reason I have returned to BMW. I was planning to get either the Mercedes or the Genesis 3.3T.

[Wmzorba09]

I Bc agree the 330 feels flat. Get behind an M340.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by Wmzorba09

I Bc agree the 330 feels flat. Get behind an M340.

1) The BMW will be selling more of the 330s than the 340s, therefore, if the 330 is "flat", they failed
2) the 340 well equipped is in the F80 price territory and still waaaayyy from the f80 value, so, if I need to pay that much to put a smile on my face...I may stick with what I have for a bit longer...

The OP clearly described the reality -- the 330 was a bet, a must for BMW to reclaim the leadership position in the segment. Now I understand even more why G70 scored higher in some comparo tests...

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by EXE46

I get that but even then doesn't mean much. When I had my E46, I didn't see the need to venture on the E90 forums to bash the successor. I knew it was an upgrade in many aspects especially speed but I decided I would skip that generation regardless and I didn't do that because I thought it was inferior.

The F30 was deliberately skipped due to being inferior. The only saving grace was that we could still get a manual transmission whereas now we don't have that option. G20 is leaps and bounds above the F30 and it's the only reason I have returned to BMW. I was planning to get either the Mercedes or the Genesis 3.3T.

Well FWIW, it's a bit easier on Bimmerpost to venture into other vehicle's territory since this forum covers a ton of models. When the E46 debuted all we really had was the now defunct BMW330ci.com and E46Fanatics, and both of those forums were/are solely dedicated to one specific car.

[EXE46]

Lol, you know I finally figured you're the Capoeira man lol. Those were the glory days E46fanatics lol. I ventured there last year and was surprised to see a lot of the OG team still post there. Best forum ever.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by EXE46

Lol, you know I finally figured you're the Capoeira man lol. Those were the glory days E46fanatics lol. I ventured there last year and was surprised to see a lot of the OG team still post there. Best forum ever.

Haha! E46Fanatics circa 2005 was really the acme for that forum. Off Topic was so active with so many memorable and entertaining personalities. It is nice to see many of the Old Guard still posting there even until this day.

[Transfer]

Originally Posted by drF80

1) The BMW will be selling more of the 330s than the 340s, therefore, if the 330 is "flat", they failed
2) the 340 well equipped is in the F80 price territory and still waaaayyy from the f80 value, so, if I need to pay that much to put a smile on my face...I may stick with what I have for a bit longer...

The OP clearly described the reality -- the 330 was a bet, a must for BMW to reclaim the leadership position in the segment. Now I understand even more why G70 scored higher in some comparo tests...

I would take the m340i xDrive all day every day over F8x for my uses. I think it's the better car on the street.

[530iDriver]

Currently driving a 2020 330i loaner, lightly optioned while my 2017 G30 530i is getting an oil change and other maintenance items taken care of.

Let me summarize my likes, dislikes and not so sure items about this G20:

Likes:

Size. If you have owned an E9X this car is certainly a throw back in some aspects. While bigger than the F30 it replaces, the car is definitely easier to park than the G30 in tighter spots. With that said, the G20 is not that much smaller overall than the 5er G30.

The sample I am driving was manufactured in Munich. Excellent fit and finish inside and out. Built as tight as a drum.

The B46 with 295HP can get you in trouble. I would say this engine is more than enough for the vast majority of the driving population. Sounds good too for a 4 pot Turbo. I still believe BMW makes the most refined engines (including 4 cyl) in the business.

The standard stereo was a nice surprise! Much clearer highs and rich but not boomy bass. Definitely a cut above the standard stereo in my G30.

Transmission, the bread and butter 8-Speed auto is still the best in the industry. However I wonder how this 330i would have been with a 6 speed manual?

Excellent visibility. A pillars are less
Thick than those on the G30

This car has remote engine start, heated seats (a total waste in Florida) and Live Cockpit pro.

Also like the rear automatic AC and HVAC controls, not something that was commonly found in 3ers from the past.

Driving position is excellent. Funny how the long hood is more evident in this G20 than my G30. It does take me back to my 2011 E90. The G20 does take a lot of subtle cues from the E90 if you know where to look for.

Handling is very good overall but not in the realm of what an E90 was with standard suspension and 17" runflats...

Dislikes

The sport seats even have power adjustable knee pad adjustment but they are hard and narrow. Not terribly comfortable just OK.The sports seats on my G30 are lazy boys by comparison.

The all black interior is drab and make the cabin look spartan and smaller than it really is. I would go Cognac or some lighter tone if I weee shopping for this car today.

The steering is a let down even in Sport Plus mode. The steering in my 530i feels more direct. Perhaps the damn tires are overinflated one good dealership fashion. I'll check the pressures to make sure.

I am sorry but the electronic safety nannies are intrusive and stupidly dangerous. The line departure feature is nerve wrecking in the expressway and the car fights you to stay in the lane even if you are already perfectly centered. Had to turn it off. I am glad my G30 is free from all that crap. Very half baked and no ready for prime time.

ASS is enabled by default. In my G30 I can permanently leave it turned off. I guess that can be resolved by coding?

On the fence:

ID7 and live cockpit pro not my favorite. Some stuff I like as well as some added functionality but those reverse gauge are an eye sore and difficult to read at a glance. I hope BMW scraps this stupid idea on ID8. Love my easy to read round gauges.

ID7 is not that terribly easy to
Navigate. I believe ID6 was the pinnacle of refinement for BMW's infortainment system. Quite frankly, I just don't see what it actually brings new to the table that ID6 and
Prior didn't.

For some
Bizarre reason, ID7 on this car can not load my phone apps (Spotify, Pandora, etc) which is not a problem for ID6 on my G30.

I find the center console bank of buttons to feel cheap and flimsy vs the console in my G30. Not saying their are bad but can't help
And notice if you come from a prior BMW.

Overall, great car. If I didn't have my G30, I would also
Be probably happy with this, but the 5er is just a sweet ride if
You value eating the miles in comfort over anything else.

Oh and the styling... I actually like it. It's a handsome car but then again, I prefer to be below the radar...

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

Currently driving a 2020 330i loaner, lightly optioned while my 2017 G30 530i is getting an oil change and other maintenance items taken care of.

Let me summarize my likes, dislikes and not so sure items about this G20:

Likes:

Size. If you have owned an E9X this car is certainly a throw back in some aspects. While bigger than the F30 it replaces, the car is definitely easier to park than the G30 in tighter spots. With that said, the G20 is not that much smaller overall than the 5er G30.

The sample I am driving was manufactured in Munich. Excellent fit and finish inside and out. Built as tight as a drum.

The B46 with 295HP can get you in trouble. I would say this engine is more than enough for the vast majority of the driving population. Sounds good too for a 4 pot Turbo. I still believe BMW makes the most refined engines (including 4 cyl) in the business.

The standard stereo was a nice surprise! Much clearer highs and rich but not boomy bass. Definitely a cut above the standard stereo in my G30.

Transmission, the bread and butter 8-Speed auto is still the best in the industry. However I wonder how this 330i would have been with a 6 speed manual?

Excellent visibility. A pillars are less
Thick than those on the G30

This car has remote engine start, heated seats (a total waste in Florida) and Live Cockpit pro.

Also like the rear automatic AC and HVAC controls, not something that was commonly found in 3ers from the past.

Driving position is excellent. Funny how the long hood is more evident in this G20 than my G30. It does take me back to my 2011 E90. The G20 does take a lot of subtle cues from the E90 if you know where to look for.

Handling is very good overall but not in the realm of what an E90 was with standard suspension and 17" runflats...

Dislikes

The sport seats even have power adjustable knee pad adjustment but they are hard and narrow. Not terribly comfortable just OK.The sports seats on my G30 are lazy boys by comparison.

The all black interior is drab and make the cabin look spartan and smaller than it really is. I would go Cognac or some lighter tone if I weee shopping for this car today.

The steering is a let down even in Sport Plus mode. The steering in my 530i feels more direct. Perhaps the damn tires are overinflated one good dealership fashion. I'll check the pressures to make sure.

I am sorry but the electronic safety nannies are intrusive and stupidly dangerous. The line departure feature is nerve wrecking in the expressway and the car fights you to stay in the lane even if you are already perfectly centered. Had to turn it off. I am glad my G30 is free from all that crap. Very half baked and no ready for prime time.

ASS is enabled by default. In my G30 I can permanently leave it turned off. I guess that can be resolved by coding?

On the fence:

ID7 and live cockpit pro not my favorite. Some stuff I like as well as some added functionality but those reverse gauge are an eye sore and difficult to read at a glance. I hope BMW scraps this stupid idea on ID8. Love my easy to read round gauges.

ID7 is not that terribly easy to
Navigate. I believe ID6 was the pinnacle of refinement for BMW's infortainment system. Quite frankly, I just don't see what it actually brings new to the table that ID6 and
Prior didn't.

For some
Bizarre reason, ID7 on this car can not load my phone apps (Spotify, Pandora, etc) which is not a problem for ID6 on my G30.

I find the center console bank of buttons to feel cheap and flimsy vs the console in my G30. Not saying their are bad but can't help
And notice if you come from a prior BMW.

Overall, great car. If I didn't have my G30, I would also
Be probably happy with this, but the 5er is just a sweet ride if
You value eating the miles in comfort over anything else.

Oh and the styling... I actually like it. It's a handsome car but then again, I prefer to be below the radar...

I'm also hoping BMW scraps a lot of stuff with iDrive 7, specifically those gauges, or at least make them a lot more customizable, like every other manufacturer, but I 100% agree, ID6 is most definitely the pinnacle of refinement for BMW's infotainment systems. The layout is so much cleaner and easier to use with a lot less going on. I'm sure I could get use to ID7, but I always find it to be one of the annoyances with modern BMW's I drive, I just wish they made it a lot simpler, in the end, I much prefer ID6 and my analog gauges, but as always, ymmv.

[BMW_Midlo_Man]

Originally Posted by simonhch

I can appreciate the responses to my OP, but I hope everyone recognises that out of the gate I said I understand there was going to be a significant difference between my car and the much less equipped loaner. That's not the issue here.

I have had a couple of base models in the past before. Both my 330i and 335i were base models. The 335 was a sport line model. I knew what to expect going into this loaner. I wasn't expecting a car that handled as well as my modded 435, or was anywhere near as quick. That isn't the comparison I was making. I am sorry if that wasn't clear in my post, but I felt at the time of writing that I made it very clear.

I have had multiple loaners from BMW before. When I had my 2009 335, I received a 2014 328xi as a loaner for a week. Similar type scenario, but I instantly knew I really liked the F30 series platform. Yeah the power wasn't what I wanted, but I knew with a bigger engine I'd be happy. And the XI suspension is floaty, but that's easily fixed. But the car just felt good. It had a real BMW feel. I enjoyed it plenty that week I had it. It's what led me to buy a 435xi....hence getting the bigger engine, and coilovers to plant the ride better.

But driving the G20, I got none of those feelings about the new generation of car. I've been driving it for two days now, and I'll have it until the middle of next week, and there's next to nothing I like about it. It doesn't make me want to even explore the upgrade to a comparable model of the new generation. The F series felt like a huge leap forward in terms of the interior and drive train, over the E; but I don't see that in the G. I thought the shifting in sport mode was terrible, and the interior is pretty comparable. There are the new digital cluster arrangements, which is kind of a take it or leave it situation for me. There is something much more elegant about the analogue gauges in the F. And the iDrive didn't feel much better than the F either.

It's to be taken with a pinch of salt of course, and I don't mean to offend any G20 drivers. Cars can be relatively subjective purchases and likes. I am also not particularly interested in a 3 series period. And would only go for a 4, as I am more of a "sedan has two doors too many" type guy, than a "coupe has two doors too few" sorta chap. So I'll probably check the new 4 series when it finally emerges. But unless previous initial new generation experiences, which I have all had through base model loaners, there is nothing here yet to excite me at all.

I stand by my feeling that this is the worst BMW I have driven to date. I really wanted to like it, but just couldn't. I am also acutely aware - just to reiterate yet again - that a 330xi sport line is a very different vehicle to a 435xi M-sport with coilovers and a dinan stage 4. That wasn't really the point I was making, but thanks for pointing it out anyway.

Alright. We hear you. I'm thinking you should give a B58 M340i xDrive a test if you're looking for power and dynamics in a 3-series frame (especially if you historically enjoy BMW products). It's definitely going to be more than the stock version of the car you started with, and if I had to guess - will come in on-par with a Dinan-equipped past-gen. I was really happy with the G20 330i I test-drove, but was substantially more moved by the power, application, sound, torque, and feel of the M340i - it was night and day for me. And I still loved the 330i.

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

I'm also hoping BMW scraps a lot of stuff with iDrive 7, specifically those gauges, or at least make them a lot more customizable, like every other manufacturer, but I 100% agree, ID6 is most definitely the pinnacle of refinement for BMW's infotainment systems. The layout is so much cleaner and easier to use with a lot less going on. I'm sure I could get use to ID7, but I always find it to be one of the annoyances with modern BMW's I drive, I just wish they made it a lot simpler, in the end, I much prefer ID6 and my analog gauges, but as always, ymmv.

Just got my G30 back. Night and day difference.

Couple of other nitpicks about the G20:

Didn't care for the HVAC controls crammed in between the center vents. Doesn't impart a premium look or feel. I know this is the new direction in the 3er, X5, X7 and 8er. One other pet peeve is the loss of the physical "Sync" button. Now it is a checkbox option buried in the ID7 AC menu.

Did I mention the loss of the CD/DVD drive?

And the stereo volume/power Knob is mounted low in the center console and angled downwards. Strange ergonomics decision there.

Again, if I didn't have a G30 or have never driven one, I would be pretty content with the G20 warts and all.

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by BMW_Midlo_Man

Alright. We hear you. I'm thinking you should give a B58 M340i xDrive a test if you're looking for power and dynamics in a 3-series frame (especially if you historically enjoy BMW products). It's definitely going to be more than the stock version of the car you started with, and if I had to guess - will come in on-par with a Dinan-equipped past-gen. I was really happy with the G20 330i I test-drove, but was substantially more moved by the power, application, sound, torque, and feel of the M340i - it was night and day for me. And I still loved the 330i.

I am sure the M340i is a beast but don't have much use for a 400HP vehicle where I live.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

One other pet peeve is the loss of the physical "Sync" button. Now it is a checkbox option buried in the ID7 AC menu.

It is annoying, but at least you can program one of the preset numbers to be the sync button if you use it a lot (I don't since I never have anyone in the car so it just stays synced...so actually one less button for me is a positive).

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

It is annoying, but at least you can program one of the preset numbers to be the sync button if you use it a lot (I don't since I never have anyone in the car so it just stays synced...so actually one less button for me is a positive).

Yes good point..

[simonhch]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Fair point. I share your sentiment to some extent. The G-Series definitely doesn't/didn't give me the same feeling(s) that I had when seeing the F30 M-Sport creeping up on me in my rearview. Where the F-Series was/is aggressive, the G-Series is soft. Where the F-Series was/is poised and sporty, the G-Series comes across utilitarian (...which isn't intended to suggest that it's not sporty nor incapable, it just doesn't feel/look sporty and doesn't exude the same sportiness that the F-Series did). The G-Series is good, but not great to me. If I were a current F3X owner, I probably wouldn't move up. I would wait for the ///M. The added tech isn't important enough for me to overlook the other things that I personally feel the G-Series lacks. I acknowledge that my feelings about the G22 may differ from that of the G20 (...referring to aesthetics/sport appeal). Oh, and the F-Series has a 6MT option. The lack of a 6MT makes a G20/22 less appealing to me.

And I think you hit it on the head better than I did in my OP. That is also exactly what I am likely to do. Wait for the M to come out and get one that's taken the first 2-3 year depreciation hit. Big thing for me is that the next M3/4 are both supposed to have an xdrive option, which is pretty huge given I live in Chicago, and winter driving can be shitty at times. Seems like they will be (a) rear biased, and also (b) able to turn the AWD off, it's best of both worlds.

[simonhch]

Thank you to some very measured responses from most people. Obviously a few people got pretty upset, but I want to reassure that my intention was not to troll in any way. Just humbly expressing an opinion, which I appreciate might not be popular. I still have the 330, as my car won't be ready until Wednesday. I have updated my thoughts below, as my initial disappointment is a bit more balanced now:


The Good:

- The stereo is excellent. So much more bass than my F32. I had to do a lot of upgrades to the 435 sound system, which I wouldn't have had to do in this base model. It doesn't even have Harman Kardon, and it still bangs.
- The interior is very, very solid and well built.
- The turn in is very sharp.


The bad:

- The iDrive isn't very good.
- The interior is boring, and the accent lighting is tacky.
- It feels soulless. Like an Infiniti. A previous poster called it utilitarian. I would agree.
- Sport mode is a travesty. Virtually undrivable. Which is utterly bizarre.


The Ugly:

- Most angles of the car. Straight on it looks okay, but the side and angled rear views are extremely unremarkable.


Based on a few days driving and the posts on here, I can see how I shouldn't let my initial disappointment deter me from trying the M340i out. I optioned one out as I have my current car on the BMW site and it came out to around 66K, which is very high for a 3 series. But I will certainly try the car at some point. It's certainly appropriately powered at 382Hp.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by simonhch

Thank you to some very measured responses from most people. Obviously a few people got pretty upset, but I want to reassure that my intention was not to troll in any way. Just humbly expressing an opinion, which I appreciate might not be popular. I still have the 330, as my car won't be ready until Wednesday. I have updated my thoughts below, as my initial disappointment is a bit more balanced now:


The Good:

- The stereo is excellent. So much more bass than my F32. I had to do a lot of upgrades to the 435 sound system, which I wouldn't have had to do in this base model. It doesn't even have Harman Kardon, and it still bangs.
- The interior is very, very solid and well built.
- The turn in is very sharp.


The bad:

- The iDrive isn't very good.
- The interior is boring, and the accent lighting is tacky.
- It feels soulless. Like an Infiniti. A previous poster called it utilitarian. I would agree.
- Sport mode is a travesty. Virtually undrivable. Which is utterly bizarre.


The Ugly:

- Most angles of the car. Straight on it looks okay, but the side and angled rear views are extremely unremarkable.


Based on a few days driving and the posts on here, I can see how I shouldn't let my initial disappointment deter me from trying the M340i out. I optioned one out as I have my current car on the BMW site and it came out to around 66K, which is very high for a 3 series. But I will certainly try the car at some point. It's certainly appropriately powered at 382Hp.

Well articulated reassessment.

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by drF80

1) The BMW will be selling more of the 330s than the 340s, therefore, if the 330 is "flat", they failed
2) the 340 well equipped is in the F80 price territory and still waaaayyy from the f80 value, so, if I need to pay that much to put a smile on my face...I may stick with what I have for a bit longer...

The OP clearly described the reality -- the 330 was a bet, a must for BMW to reclaim the leadership position in the segment. Now I understand even more why G70 scored higher in some comparo tests...

Yes, because the "scoring" is mostly subjective nonsense in those comparos. These same clowns also chose the Hyundai Veloster n over a mclaren, Porsche, among others. Hyundai is the new darling of c&d, RT, and the ilk. In the past bmw was their darling, and they obnoxiously praised the 3er in every one of their sham comparisons. Now bmw has grown arrogant, and obviously ceased delivering the envelopes, and Hyundai anted up for the darling spot.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Fuller

Yes, because the "scoring" is mostly subjective nonsense in those comparos. These same clowns also chose the Hyundai Veloster n over a mclaren, Porsche, among others. Hyundai is the new darling of c&d, RT, and the ilk. In the past bmw was their darling, and they obnoxiously praised the 3er in every one of their sham comparisons. Now bmw has grown arrogant, and obviously ceased delivering the envelopes, and Hyundai anted up for the darling spot.

The real question we should be asking is why a McLaren and a Porsche are in any comparo with a Hyundai. Sounds to me like writers are running out of ideas to keep readers interested.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by simonhch

Thank you to some very measured responses from most people. Obviously a few people got pretty upset, but I want to reassure that my intention was not to troll in any way. Just humbly expressing an opinion, which I appreciate might not be popular. I still have the 330, as my car won't be ready until Wednesday. I have updated my thoughts below, as my initial disappointment is a bit more balanced now:


The Good:

- The stereo is excellent. So much more bass than my F32. I had to do a lot of upgrades to the 435 sound system, which I wouldn't have had to do in this base model. It doesn't even have Harman Kardon, and it still bangs.
- The interior is very, very solid and well built.
- The turn in is very sharp.


The bad:

- The iDrive isn't very good.
- The interior is boring, and the accent lighting is tacky.
- It feels soulless. Like an Infiniti. A previous poster called it utilitarian. I would agree.
- Sport mode is a travesty. Virtually undrivable. Which is utterly bizarre.


The Ugly:

- Most angles of the car. Straight on it looks okay, but the side and angled rear views are extremely unremarkable.


Based on a few days driving and the posts on here, I can see how I shouldn't let my initial disappointment deter me from trying the M340i out. I optioned one out as I have my current car on the BMW site and it came out to around 66K, which is very high for a 3 series. But I will certainly try the car at some point. It's certainly appropriately powered at 382Hp.

Don't walk back your original opinion because a few 330i owners got butthurt, the truth hurts, deal with it.

I agree with everything you said but the extra power in the M340i is scary fast, the extra torque pulls you back unto your seat, like an on/off toggle switch!

Where as the 330i is also fast but it build up gradually with less fanfare.

However, everything else is pretty much the same as the 330i, so think same car but on steroids.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Don't walk back your original opinion because a few 330i owners got butthurt, the truth hurts, deal with it.

I agree with everything you said but the extra power in the M340i is scary fast, the extra torque pulls you back unto your seat, like an on/off toggle switch!

Where as the 330i is also fast but it build up gradually with less fanfare.

However, every else is pretty much the same as the 330i, so think same car but on steroids.

I agree with your suggestion. People need to be true to how they feel and don't care so much what others think. This need not be a circle jerk session.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I agree with your suggestion. People need to be true to how they feel and don't care so much what others think. This need not be a circle jerk session.

That's easier said that done, especially here where the URL Badmen have the anonymity of the internet to hide behind, while they hurl at crap at anyone with an opinion that doesn't jive with their own..

As long as I detect no trolling, I respect all and anyone's impression, for better or worst. No point in stifling someone's perspective just not to hurt feelings.

Relax folks, it's not that serious.