View Poll Results: DCT or traditional AT? | |||
I prefer a DCT. | 235 | 60.57% | |
I prefer a traditional AT. | 32 | 8.25% | |
Either is fine with me. | 53 | 13.66% | |
I don't care. No manual, no purchase. | 68 | 17.53% | |
Voters: 388. You may not vote on this poll |
Post Reply |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
07-15-2020, 04:17 PM | #353 | |
Law Enforcer
25200
Rep 22,306
Posts
Drives: '22 Chalk Gray Porsche C2S
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: ..in your rearview!!!
|
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-15-2020, 04:21 PM | #354 | |
Second Lieutenant
398
Rep 267
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
Brooklyn Grey M3CX
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-15-2020, 05:05 PM | #355 |
Barge driver
8682
Rep 12,434
Posts |
Grab a gear and it's there on the down shift as an aside in D3 the programing is far better than the MDCT it's more like PDK in its reactions and down shifts keeping the revs on the boil when braking into a corner.
What it does lack is that slight mechanical feel of the MDCT.
__________________
730d/Z4C
|
Appreciate
2
Sedan_Clan25199.50 Loma398.00 |
07-15-2020, 05:46 PM | #356 |
Colonel
1859
Rep 2,307
Posts |
Can you skip gears in an auto? 5-3?
My favorite thing to do in my M3 is mash the gas and downshift and it goes to the lowest possible gear given the current speed. Will I still be able to do that?
__________________
2001 330Ci (sold)
2007 335i (sold) 2008 E90 M3 (sold) 2015 M3 (sold) 2022 G83 |
Appreciate
0
|
07-15-2020, 05:48 PM | #357 |
Major General
5459
Rep 7,037
Posts |
Unfortunately I think this is a main part of the experience the DCT fans are looking for. I know it was for me when I had my E90 M3 with M-DCT and compared to ZF equipped cars which I never bothered paddle shift of this very reason, though none of them had the general racy character of the M3 to be fair. That said if the ZF G8X result in car that feels faster and more responsive at all times I think I will adapt quickly, I have seen very little complaints of journalists reviewing the Alfa QV in this regard as an example. If not, I’ll still get over it while enjoying the AWD factor as a give and take
I’m going from an MT so the change is already massive, go big or... Last edited by solstice; 07-15-2020 at 05:53 PM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
07-15-2020, 09:20 PM | #358 | |
Captain
1400
Rep 761
Posts |
Quote:
I test drove an X3M Competition for 30 mins with the transmission in the fastest shift mode, using it in 'manual mode' like I do with my F82. I found it frustrating (and night-and-day difference from the M2Comp I drove next). I am definitely not interested in buying an auto G8x if it drives like the vehicle I test-drove. I would rather bite the bullet and teach myself to drive an MT with the 'wrong hand'. There is more than one track review of the M8 (with the same transmission) where the reviewers complain about lag on downshifts. I linked to one in the previous length DCT/AT thread. So it's not just 'one person' ... clearly some people are just having frustrating experiences. I am willing to believe that the M-ZF8 is a great transmission in 'full auto' mode - but I just didn't buy an M car to drive it in full auto. Much like the DCT on my M4, I find that the car's choice of gear maddening in anything below D3, but I don't *always* want to drive around all the time with the revs above 3000. The paddles give me the choice of when I want/need high revs and when I don't - just like a manual. The only difference is that the execution of shifts is about 5x faster than an MT. I can see that there are plenty of people who like the ZF8 transmission a lot - and maybe it suits their driving style. They are obviously entitled to their opinions. But I find it hard to reconcile the many comments that "it's just the same" will the test-drive experience that I had. I continue to hope that there was just a problem with the vehicle I drove and that I'll be blown away by the G82, since I struggle to think of another car that suits my lifestyle. |
|
Appreciate
1
Sedan_Clan25199.50 |
07-15-2020, 09:34 PM | #359 | |
General
21127
Rep 20,742
Posts
Drives: 2021 911 turbo
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal
|
Quote:
I'll copy what I pasted in an other thread because I believe it is pertinant to this discussion: Planetary automatics have indeed significantly closed the performance gap with DCT, but they aren't quite there yet. While the reported "shift times" are very close, it is what happens during those miliseconds that makes the difference. The various clutch packs inside the planetary auto cannot handle an all out power shift, so the engine needs to momentarily cut back on power during the shift. Which is not the case with DCT, where the DCT can recuperate the inertia of the engine RPM drop and convert it in forward acceleration. With the planetary auto, there's a momentary reduction in acceleration during the shift (your head bobs forward), with the DCT there is a surge of acceleration during the shift (your head bobs rearward). The latter is much more satisfying from a sporty driving standpoint and offers a slight performance edge. I recently had the opportunity to test drive my buddies G90 M5 back to back with his new 992 PDK C4 and my DCT M4cs. The G90 M5 is one fantastic machine, but my biggest dissapointment with the car was the transmission. It feels heavy and slugging compared to the PDK and DCT. I found the response on upshifts on the ZF 8AT were very quick, but the response on downshifts were a bit laggy.
__________________
Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver
Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black |
|
07-15-2020, 09:48 PM | #360 |
Major General
5459
Rep 7,037
Posts |
“I would rather bite the bullet and teach myself to drive an MT with the 'wrong hand'.”
As one that moved from right hand MT shifting for 10 years to left hand MT shifting for 4 years and back to right hand I can say that there is no learning curve, it’s immediate with just a few occasions the first month of reaching for the shifter in the door |
Appreciate
2
pbar1400.00 Sedan_Clan25199.50 |
07-15-2020, 10:07 PM | #361 | |
Major General
5459
Rep 7,037
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-15-2020, 10:49 PM | #362 |
Lieutenant Colonel
1118
Rep 1,809
Posts |
I was a diehard manual trans guy up until Porsche came out with PDK
I would never go back a glorious tranny. I like BMW DCT not as good as PDK but better than the 8 speed automatic imo
__________________
2024 Porsche 911 GTS Cabriolet
|
Appreciate
1
pbar1400.00 |
07-16-2020, 02:08 AM | #363 | ||
General
17549
Rep 25,131
Posts |
Quote:
The ZF box has become so good it's made DCT redundant.
__________________
My car made front page of Bimmerpost
|
||
Appreciate
1
Sedan_Clan25199.50 |
07-16-2020, 05:33 AM | #364 | |
First Lieutenant
386
Rep 315
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-16-2020, 04:12 PM | #365 |
Barge driver
8682
Rep 12,434
Posts |
Yes it does that too.
__________________
730d/Z4C
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-16-2020, 04:17 PM | #366 | |
Barge driver
8682
Rep 12,434
Posts |
Quote:
Gearshift shift strategies are dependant on the D mode selected D1/2/3 (just like MDCT) for me in auto the box responds better than the MDCT did in auto (less ghosts in the machine it appears) In terms of user interface the M ZF8 is the same as MDCT same options same shifter select pattern, totally intuitive to anyone used to MDCT.
__________________
730d/Z4C
|
|
Appreciate
1
Sedan_Clan25199.50 |
07-16-2020, 04:25 PM | #367 | |
Major General
5459
Rep 7,037
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-16-2020, 04:27 PM | #368 | |
Barge driver
8682
Rep 12,434
Posts |
Quote:
In terms of manual M's I've had one and the gearbox was a huge let down just awful and let the rest of the car down, I'll never get another manual M after that. For me compared to S2000/Porsche/type R etc... they are poor and quite embarrassing that M think they are fit for purpose, long throw, vague, notchy and rubbery and loose all at the same time, rifle bolt they are not. But to each his own.
__________________
730d/Z4C
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-16-2020, 04:48 PM | #369 | |
Major General
5459
Rep 7,037
Posts |
Quote:
As much as I love MT I’m not a die hard and todays ATs including DCTs are worth swapping in and out of for me personally. No doubt MT is a more satisfying way to shift though. |
|
Appreciate
2
Sedan_Clan25199.50 ra2289307.00 |
07-17-2020, 10:16 AM | #370 |
Colonel
1859
Rep 2,307
Posts |
Phew! Thanks for the info
__________________
2001 330Ci (sold)
2007 335i (sold) 2008 E90 M3 (sold) 2015 M3 (sold) 2022 G83 |
Appreciate
0
|
07-17-2020, 12:02 PM | #371 | |
Major
972
Rep 1,063
Posts |
Quote:
One of the easiest solutions would have been to make the gearing much longer on these ZF boxes. It has some of the shortest ratios of any ZF equipped cars that I've looked into in 2018 at least when the F90 came out. The 1 short test drive of the X3MComp I had I wasn't really focused solely on the gearbox like I've had on the 3 different occasions I've driven the F90 (2 dealership test drives, 1 friend), It was mostly the engine note, power output and dynamics of it. It's possible it's easier to shift since it's simply a bit slower than the M5 too. I just want people to temper their expectations, to some people the ZF box is an upgrade, to some it's a downgrade and I'm in the latter camp. |
|
Appreciate
3
|
07-17-2020, 02:46 PM | #372 | |
Captain
1400
Rep 761
Posts |
Quote:
This probably doesn't matter if you largely drive in full-auto and use the paddles for an occasional 'kick-down' or short-shift. But if you're trying to do *all* the shifts yourself (both up and down) then it feels pretty frantic, in my opinion. Any small lag is noticeable, and any wrong gear choice can lose your boost. It's hard to imagine exactly what this would be like in a track setting - e.g. if I need to drop 2 or 3 gears under hard braking going into a corner (I couldn't come close to that in a test-drive situation on regular streets). Quite possibly the car would do a better job of it than I could ... but that would be no fun. :-( |
|
Appreciate
1
somer972.00 |
07-21-2020, 10:31 AM | #374 |
Major General
5459
Rep 7,037
Posts |
I don’t know if it’s confirmed but I’d guess they will continue with a sequential racing tranny like the Ricardo unit they use in the M6 GT3. As a note Porsche is also using a sequential gearbox in the 911 GT3 cup.
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|