[secretanchitman]

No 6MT? Well next-gen M4 it is then, assuming the manual will remain on it!

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by TylerJamesInc

Wow, I can always count on you for an eloquently executed post. Did I word that correctly?
Anyway, you hit the nail on the head. I've had a tuned '07 E90 6MT N54, and now a '10 E90 6MT N52(1). I just helped my buddy put DPs on his FBO '07 E92 AT N54. Is his car quick? Sure. Fast? I guess. Fun to drive? Nope. I'd much rather drive my N52 with a manual than his N54 with an auto- 10 times out of 10.

I wish I could say I was looking forward to seeing the car without the wrap, but without being offered in a MT, I'm in full limp mode.

Road and Track said it perfectly when they said "But there's a bigger point here. The 1-series is the last car that BMW engineered before the Germans, as a car-making culture, fell out of love with driving."

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...ven-bmw-135is/

[Germanauto]

Let me guess.

Fast lap times, mind-numbingly boring driving experience.

Modern day BMW for you folks.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Road and Track said it perfectly when they said "But there's a bigger point here. The 1-series is the last car that BMW engineered before the Germans, as a car-making culture, fell out of love with driving."

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...ven-bmw-135is/

Meh....I'm going to call BS. For example when this forum was launched the argument was always that a 6MT was faster and lower maintenance. Then came the SMG and the 6MT folks started to change their tune and gripe that the SMG couldn't be driven smoothly. Of course that was all they had to argue about because the SMG was faster around the track. Then came the DCT and the 6MT faithful changed their tune again. Faster around the track and lower maintenance were no longer why the 6MT was superior. Now it was all about this mythical "driving experience". The 6MT faithful should just come to the realization that they're not inherently better drivers, or "true" eenthusiasts, they should instead realize that they just enjoy a 6MT and that's it.

[WWM3]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Meh....I'm going to call BS. For example when this forum was launched the argument was always that a 6MT was faster and lower maintenance. Then came the SMG and the 6MT folks started to change their tune and gripe that the SMG couldn't be driven smoothly. Of course that was all they had to argue about because the SMG was faster around the track. Then came the DCT and the 6MT faithful changed their tune again. Faster around the track and lower maintenance were no longer why the 6MT was superior. Now it was all about this mythical "driving experience". The 6MT faithful should just come to the realization that they're not inherently better drivers, or "true" eenthusiasts, they should instead realize that they just enjoy a 6MT and that's it.

Let's not pretend that the SMG or the DCT are more reliable than the 6MT.

[nozydog]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Meh....I'm going to call BS. For example when this forum was launched the argument was always that a 6MT was faster and lower maintenance. Then came the SMG and the 6MT folks started to change their tune and gripe that the SMG couldn't be driven smoothly. Of course that was all they had to argue about because the SMG was faster around the track. Then came the DCT and the 6MT faithful changed their tune again. Faster around the track and lower maintenance were no longer why the 6MT was superior. Now it was all about this mythical "driving experience". The 6MT faithful should just come to the realization that they're not inherently better drivers, or "true" eenthusiasts, they should instead realize that they just enjoy a 6MT and that's it.

I think it’s more a fear of total automisation! Once all tranny’s are auto then we’ll be onto the next stage and car makers will (as they already are) step up development of fully automised cars. Will we one day see the last of the manually steered cars disappear.?? Not that it’ll happen in our lifetime but it probably will, all in the name of safety!!

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Meh....I'm going to call BS. For example when this forum was launched the argument was always that a 6MT was faster and lower maintenance. Then came the SMG and the 6MT folks started to change their tune and gripe that the SMG couldn't be driven smoothly. Of course that was all they had to argue about because the SMG was faster around the track. Then came the DCT and the 6MT faithful changed their tune again. Faster around the track and lower maintenance were no longer why the 6MT was superior. Now it was all about this mythical "driving experience". The 6MT faithful should just come to the realization that they're not inherently better drivers, or "true" eenthusiasts, they should instead realize that they just enjoy a 6MT and that's it.

Ya....I'm going to call Little Boy.

I've been driving MTs for 35 years and yes, in earlier days we were considered the enthusiasts and the purists. MTs offered better performance, more control and most importantly - a physical connection to the driving experience. But thinking MT drivers evolved to understand that modern DCTs and now ATs absolutely provide better performance and control. To argue that point is just stupid. And choosing a modern AT is completely logical.

I don't care much about labels like "purists" and "enthusiasts", but I do care about "driving" as opposed to "riding". And we all know that in a very short number of years, autonomous cars will be able to steer a more precise track and select more precise acceleration and braking than any human can. Will we then call people who ride in those cars driving purists? Driving enthusiasts?

To people like me, selecting my own gears is every bit as much a part of the driving experience as picking my own track, my own acceleration and my own braking. That doesn't make me better than you or "AT purists", but it's just as reasonable as any other perspective.

[clbmw]

Originally Posted by nozydog

I think itÂ’s more a fear of total automisation! Once all trannyÂ’s are auto then weÂ’ll be onto the next stage and car makers will (as they already are) step up development of fully automised cars. Will we one day see the last of the manually steered cars disappear.?? Not that itÂ’ll happen in our lifetime but it probably will, all in the name of safety!!

Well let's be honest, autopilot is also the only way 99% of people who buy cars (myself and most on Bimmerpost included) would ever be able to get close to the lap times and performance limits, that so many people debate and worry about...

[StealYourFace]

Sad, but I've been driving the same car for 9 years (I never used to keep cars) and just bought an e36 m3.

The "bastardized underpowered" e36 m3 us car is more fun than a frog in a glass of milk, all this power cars have these days is getting a little stale frankly.

They baffle me... BMW sells a handful of niche market models that compete with themselves but can't keep the wagon or a stick in this market.

[Chief F1 Fan]

[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

it's the size of a 5 series.. so.. I can see why no manual

I can't imagine it being the size of a 5 series that is a whale of a car.

[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by Chief F1 Fan

The R should be on the left and there should be a 6th gear.

[Eddien123]

Originally Posted by nozydog

Matter of opinion... my 340i drives great and I love the look of it too (it’s way prettier than the e90 to my eyes)

Previous car was a 2013 Cayman (the best handling car on the road by all accounts) so I know how a car should handle. Obviously there is a difference between the two, but the F30 really ain’t as bad as you’re suggesting!!

Having said that your comment re the drive may be true, it doesn’t quite have the steering feel of my old e90 & e92 but while all previous 3’s may have driven better, it’s not far behind!

Like you said. All matter of opinion. While an M-sport, properly colored f30 looks good. I? dont think it holds a candle to the E90.

E90 took bmw in a direction it needed to go and the f30 didnt succeed the E90 very well imo.

[Matteo88]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Meh....I'm going to call BS. The 6MT faithful should just come to the realization that they're not inherently better drivers, or "true" eenthusiasts, they should instead realize that they just enjoy a 6MT and that's it.

i wouldn't necessarily call it BS--but the rest of what you said is on point. the arguments in favour of a 6MT used to be more numerous. We used to have efficiency and performance. now all we are left with is "fun to drive", but i think that's enough for most of us. i still think it was largely an honest engagement by 6MT lovers. it's not that we're now changing our tune, it's that driving engagement is important enough to us to still prefer the 6MT even in the absence of the claims to efficiency, simplicity, and performance.

[TractionControlOff]

Originally Posted by goj

Hopefully it doesn't gain weight. That's my only concern. My guess is it will stay similar to F30

I believe it actually loses 176 lbs thanks to the new materials used in the platform. If so, that would be really impressive. (especially with the large power gains).

My concern is regarding the size. Maybe the physics gurus could chime in on whether inertia is more related to weight than size?? If it's weight, then it should have improved handling/less roll and that would be great.

I also wonder if the power kit will not be available on this model.

[nozydog]

Originally Posted by bimmer456

I can't imagine it being the size of a 5 series that is a whale of a car.

It won’t be the size of the new 5 obviously, that IS a whale, but the F30 is around the size of the E28 (gen 2) so the G20 will quite probably equal the size of the E34 (gen 3) 5 series

[Dylan86]

Spring 2019 you say? RWD w/LSD you say?

Perfect timing for a new family sedan, for me

Would go great beside the m235i we have, which will be a long term keeper for sure!

These M-lite models are perfect, nothing too MMMMuch, or too little.

[RedKloud]

Spring 2019? Too late!! My lease is up at the end of 2018.

[wknddrivr]

Originally Posted by StealYourFace

The "bastardized underpowered" e36 m3 us car is more fun than a frog in a glass of milk, all this power cars have these days is getting a little stale frankly.

They baffle me... BMW sells a handful of niche market models that compete with themselves but can't keep the wagon or a stick in this market.

+1

I have more fun in my E36 than any modern BMW. Couldn't care less that its underpowered. Its just engaging, fun, and reminds me what an ultimate driving machine is supposed to feel like

[RPiM5]

Seriously BMW, you make the next the 3-Serious without a Manual option, and I'm done with you. The 2019 M340i with a 6MT was THE BMW I have been waiting for.

[eluded]

Originally Posted by RPiM5

No more Manuals for the BMW 3-Series?

Agreed, we are getting closer to no more manual transmissions. Whenever I drive an automatic I feel like I've had a lobotomy. Can't wait for the autonomous vehicles to come and finish off the driving experience.

[trey100]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Meh....I'm going to call BS. For example when this forum was launched the argument was always that a 6MT was faster and lower maintenance. Then came the SMG and the 6MT folks started to change their tune and gripe that the SMG couldn't be driven smoothly. Of course that was all they had to argue about because the SMG was faster around the track. Then came the DCT and the 6MT faithful changed their tune again. Faster around the track and lower maintenance were no longer why the 6MT was superior. Now it was all about this mythical "driving experience". The 6MT faithful should just come to the realization that they're not inherently better drivers, or "true" eenthusiasts, they should instead realize that they just enjoy a 6MT and that's it.

Driving a manual has always included greater connection, even more so in the past.

Growing up driving in the late 80's, I'm not sure anyone would of had to argue that driving a manual was more enjoyable than those terrible 3 and if you were lucky 4 speed automatics. Of course the manuals were also faster which is a great selling point, but the automatics were so bad that the choice to go manual clearly covered the driving enjoyment and connection parts as well.