[BigSky702]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Ha, yes, you had the worst possible steering setup.

While my wife had her LCI F30, I had a Mazda3 and a GTI, both fwd and EPS, with the calipers in the front and steering arm in the rear, engineering wise, as bad as it can get.

But both had wildly better steering feel, feedback and linearity than the stupid BMW. Hell, it was bad enough that between the growing size of the 3er and the poor dynamics, we no longer own a single BMW, after 20 years of being owners and fans. Glad to see we didn't make the wrong choice in leaving.

LOL, I don't understand the bizarro world we live in where Genesis is getting rave reviews!? I hate the styling, but if it offers better for less $$$..

Hell, look at what we have in the white house and how that horror story is playing out around the world! Up is now down, I guess!!

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by BigSky702

LOL, I don't understand the bizarro world we live in where Genesis is getting rave reviews!? I hate the styling, but if it offers better for less $$$..

Hell, look at what we have in the white house and how that horror story is playing out around the world! Up is now down, I guess!!

Funny, we started Stranger Things last night. Spoiler Alert, Toby doesn't even make it out of Ep1.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by BigSky702

LOL, I don't understand the bizarro world we live in where Genesis is getting rave reviews!? I hate the styling, but if it offers better for less $$$..

Hell, look at what we have in the white house and how that horror story is playing out around the world! Up is now down, I guess!!

The genesis probably handles well due to the engineers. Because they aren't too established, I believe Genesis gave the ex-german engineers more freedom than say BMW. I remember I read a review of the prototype 3 series and one engineer was trying to teach the professional driver/reviewer how most of the general public steers with one hand on top of the wheel, almost as if the engineer was saying it was wrong to want feel or even drive the car how its meant to be driven, BMW wants their engineers to go after the general public while Genesis wants its engineers to build a 3 series competitor to help their heritage/prestige. And after test driving a 3.3TT V6 model loaded at $53k, I think they've done a great job at making a worthy competitor. Its no longer the 1990s where Hyundai was known for junk.

[BimmerFix]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

They'll likely tweak the old F30 rack for the M340i but due to the inline 6, it can't fit the new steering rack the 330i has.

Yeah, more than likely that's exactly what BMW did I'm guessing.

[dylane_92]

i Wouldn't take Car&Driver seriously when it comes to BMW sedans.
If it doesn't feel exactly like a 22 year old E39 they'll rip it apart, despite everyone else claiming it (and the G30) are huge improvements

[hans007]

Originally Posted by BimmerFix

That was one article, and that was a pre production demo Car. They even mentioned that hopefully the production car would have the new steering Rack . So we shall see I guess, I doubt BMW puts the old F30 rack in the M340i , the most sportiest current available 3er.

that article was by road and track, and they literally said that the new rack can't fit in the m340i.

its in the x3 m40i and the 330i though. I can't imagine them swapping an entire steering rack out of a car that was that close to production

[magbarn]

Originally Posted by BigSky702

Coming from an Infiniti Q50 with DAS, it felt immensely better! But that’s not saying much.

Genesis and Mazda are also EPS not hydraulic, correct ?? So how did they get the secret sauce!? And the ultimate driving machine can’t??

That's the question of the day. Would it really be that expensive for BMW to make a m sport steering package that would make the steering stiff with feedback like the older cars while leaving it out for the pinkie cell phone using drivers?

[hans007]

Originally Posted by dylane_92

i Wouldn't take Car&Driver seriously when it comes to BMW sedans.
If it doesn't feel exactly like a 22 year old E39 they'll rip it apart, despite everyone else claiming it (and the G30) are huge improvements

Car and driver just complains about hydraulic steering will ever come back. Its not happening and no one else has it either, so their review is exactly the "its not an e46 m3" complaints that bmw vp was talking about.

They also seem to have a "lets just crown a new king BMW beater" syndrome every other year.

Hell when the current lexus IS came out they said it was a bmw killer. Then the ATS. Then the guilia, now the G70. And now its just "old bmws"

I'm guessing they werent BMW killers (if anything the ATS is dead, the guilia barely sells, and I'm betting when all is said and done the G70 will also will not sell so well given the market for sedans, and that its still probably not quite as good, just a little bit cheaper, and most people buying in this segment aren't quite that price sensitive), but car and driver has to write something instead of "bmw, best in class".

This particular review, seems to outright be complaining that the bmw allwheel drive system has oversteer which seems like... wait isn't that why you got a BMW to begin with instead of one with understeer like an audi (which no doubt they'd say was like.... it has predictable understeer, and its so planted yada yada)

[agentorange]

Originally Posted by BigSky702

Coming from an Infiniti Q50 with DAS, it felt immensely better! But that’s not saying much.

Genesis and Mazda are also EPS not hydraulic, correct ?? So how did they get the secret sauce!? And the ultimate driving machine can’t??

What I read about DAS made me think:

1) I didn't want to drive any Infiniti so fitted

2) The existing cars should be recalled and crushed.

At least the steering on the F30 doesn't fight you.

[BimmerFix]

Originally Posted by hans007

that article was by road and track, and they literally said that the new rack can't fit in the m340i.

its in the x3 m40i and the 330i though. I can't imagine them swapping an entire steering rack out of a car that was that close to production

True, I read the article way back, so excuse me. Just hope the steering is good, as long as it feels right to me, is all that matters honestly. Not what road and track says, or anyone else for that matter.

[agentorange]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Have you not driven other cars? BMW's EPS is nearly impossibly bad.

That's a bit harsh. Yes, it is largely devoid of feel but it is accurate so long as your car is aligned correctly. Ours was twitchy until it was aligned and the wonky cambers at the rear sorted out. For sure, the car has more grip than I am brave.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by agentorange

That's a bit harsh. Yes, it is largely devoid of feel but it is accurate so long as your car is aligned correctly. Ours was twitchy until it was aligned and the wonky cambers at the rear sorted out. For sure, the car has more grip than I am brave.

The simple fact is that other companies working with the same basic ZF components (BMW and others don't design their own racks) have done a far superior job of converting from HPS to EPS. Hell, Honda had decent to great EPS in the NSX and S2000 nearly 30 years ago

BMW failed miserably at EPS and hurt both MINI and BMW through their inability to course correct. The LCI was better than the original F30, and it sounds like the G20 is better yet. Perhaps the G20 LCI will get things back on track, a decade later.

[BigSky702]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Funny, we started Stranger Things last night. Spoiler Alert, Toby doesn't even make it out of Ep1.

Lol!! No spoilers!! I just finished the first season!!

[anotheran]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

one engineer was trying to teach the professional driver/reviewer how most of the general public steers with one hand on top of the wheel, almost as if the engineer was saying it was wrong to want feel or even drive the car how its meant to be driven, BMW wants their engineers to go after the general public

LOL this!

Some more quotes:
“There was a clear request for less steering effort. No one wants bad feedback—such as a steering wheel that vibrates in response to bumps in the road.”
“My personal opinion is, we’re providing enough feedback to our mainstream customers. Some drive 30,000 miles per year in their BMWs, including long trips at high speeds. So the strongest demand we heard was, ‘Please reduce the steering effort.’ They seem to want more isolation.” - BMW driving-dynamics expert Johann Kistler
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/st...-steering-feel

“At big autobahn speeds, those cars just don’t seem stable enough to me,” said Van As. He explained that BMW always tries to cater for the customer who wants to relax a little at 200kph (125mph); maybe even take one hand off the wheel for a moment when he needs to. -Jos Van As, leads the 3 Series’ driving dynamics engineering team
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...port-prototype

BMW, the ultimate A to B machine while looking cool and sporty

[Al Bundy's Dodge]

Originally Posted by anotheran

LOL this!

Some more quotes:
“There was a clear request for less steering effort. No one wants bad feedback—such as a steering wheel that vibrates in response to bumps in the road.”
“My personal opinion is, we’re providing enough feedback to our mainstream customers. Some drive 30,000 miles per year in their BMWs, including long trips at high speeds. So the strongest demand we heard was, ‘Please reduce the steering effort.’ They seem to want more isolation.” - BMW driving-dynamics expert Johann Kistler
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/st...-steering-feel

“At big autobahn speeds, those cars just don’t seem stable enough to me,” said Van As. He explained that BMW always tries to cater for the customer who wants to relax a little at 200kph (125mph); maybe even take one hand off the wheel for a moment when he needs to. -Jos Van As, leads the 3 Series’ driving dynamics engineering team
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...port-prototype

BMW, the ultimate A to B machine while looking cool and sporty

Hard not to be incensed reading those quotes

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by anotheran

LOL this!

Some more quotes:
"There was a clear request for less steering effort. No one wants bad feedback—such as a steering wheel that vibrates in response to bumps in the road."
"My personal opinion is, we're providing enough feedback to our mainstream customers. Some drive 30,000 miles per year in their BMWs, including long trips at high speeds. So the strongest demand we heard was, 'Please reduce the steering effort.' They seem to want more isolation." - BMW driving-dynamics expert Johann Kistler
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/st...-steering-feel

"At big autobahn speeds, those cars just don't seem stable enough to me," said Van As. He explained that BMW always tries to cater for the customer who wants to relax a little at 200kph (125mph); maybe even take one hand off the wheel for a moment when he needs to. -Jos Van As, leads the 3 Series' driving dynamics engineering team
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...port-prototype

BMW, the ultimate A to B machine while looking cool and sporty

Reading this just made me sad, if you want a relaxing car, get a Mercedes or Lexus, BMW is supposed to be the ultimate driving machine, and part of that is steering, Jos Van As sounds better suited to be working at Toyota/Lexus

[BigSky702]

I guess if you want true driving dynamics, you’ll have to get an M?? Or at least M-inspired???

Why can’t there be a two model types?? I hope they don’t take that approach to the “sport” models!!

[Weiner0123]

Reelaxxx!!!! Every other review has been praising bmw on the new 3 series.

[tallshortguy]

Originally Posted by Weiner0123

Reelaxxx!!!! Every other review has been praising bmw on the new 3 series.

Yep sounds a bit like some hacked together article that directly contradicts the vast majority of reviews out there. Pretty much every Euro publication has said the G20 has better handling than any of it's entry level competitors. Additionally, several reviews have said it has better steering than the C-class but this author claims otherwise.

Honestly American car magazines are historically bad and random with their reviews. They'll oscillate between praising a car and then suddenly excoriate the exact same car within a year.

C&D and MT are the same magazines that get blasted for some of their historically awful car of the year picks. Say what you will about hindsight being 20/20 but you'd think they'd be able to do better. Then again, it'll be interesting what MT says.

The likes of Evo are far more consistent and, in my opinion, reliable.

[upsidedownfunnel]

Originally Posted by dylane_92

i Wouldn't take Car&Driver seriously when it comes to BMW sedans.
If it doesn't feel exactly like a 22 year old E39 they'll rip it apart, despite everyone else claiming it (and the G30) are huge improvements

Except anyone who has driven cars for more than 5 years can instantly feel how the F30 was such a watered down 3 series. Also, C&D liked each and every 3 series until the F30. There's a general consensus on how bad the F30 was dynamically.

I really had high hopes for the G20, but it looks like more of the same. I just don't understand how my Chevy SS has so much better steering and handling than even a $60k F30 340i M Sport with THP. It just doesn't make any sense.

[StBlGT]

Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel

Except anyone who has driven cars for more than 5 years can instantly feel how the F30 was such a watered down 3 series. Also, C&D liked each and every 3 series until the F30. There's a general consensus on how bad the F30 was dynamically.

I really had high hopes for the G20, but it looks like more of the same. I just don't understand how my Chevy SS has so much better steering and handling than even a $60k F30 340i M Sport with THP. It just doesn't make any sense.

Because the chevy ss is a better car. I am an original owner of a 09 g8 gt (never drove the ss, but know it is superior to the g8), and i have driven all kinds of cars over the past decade looking to possibly trade in the g8 (335i, is350 f sport, s4, etc). I wouldn't even think about trading my car for any of those. The car is bulletproof, and is a beast with just a few mods. It is unfortunate holden is no more.

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by BigSky702

Coming from an Infiniti Q50 with DAS, it felt immensely better! But that’s not saying much.

Genesis and Mazda are also EPS not hydraulic, correct ?? So how did they get the secret sauce!? And the ultimate driving machine can’t??

You know, car&driver is not the ultimate authority in EPS. Just because they said it, that doesn’t mean it’s true. Multiple reviews have stated that G20 steering is best in class. (From the top of my mind: WhatCar) And based on my experience, WhatCar is the correct one. I mean, right now, I’m in Hawaii and rented a Camaro convertible, literally parked outside right at this moment, there’s no way this steering better than any BMW I’ve ever driven. Other than that the build quality, materials, brakes, are all awful. It feels like a $20K car.