[Fuller]

Originally Posted by BigSky702

LOL, I don't understand the bizarro world we live in where Genesis is getting rave reviews!? I hate the styling, but if it offers better for less $$$..

Hell, look at what we have in the white house and how that horror story is playing out around the world! Up is now down, I guess!!

You don't understand it because there's a healthy serving of bull crap accompanying the g70 hype. Dig a little deeper into the car and driver review on the 2 liter 4 cylinder g70, and you'll see that it wasn't very impressive either. In summary, they said not to even bother with the manual transmission it was so uninspiring, it had slow acceleration for a modern turbo 4 (6.6 seconds to 60 mph), and the engine sounds like a blender.

They seemed somewhat impressed with its 0.91g on the skid pad and 161 foot stop from 70mph. They said the road handling was nearly as good as the 3.3L model that had wider stickier tires (0.95g). Now fast forward to the 330i that had 0.89g on the skid pad and stopped from 70 in 165 feet. Bear in mind that the 330i has run flat summer tires, and the g70 does not. Yet 0.89g on the skid pad for the 330i is "unimpressive" but 0.91g for the 2L g70 is somehow "nearly as good" as the 0.95g posted by the 3.3L g70 with wider, top quality summer tires? Hmm seems a bit inconsistent to me.

Bottom line is these reviews are entertaining to read, but don't make strong assumptions based on them. Obviously, the best way to judge is to take these cars on a test drive yourself.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Fuller

You understand it because there's a healthy serving of bull crap accompanying the g70 hype. Dig a little deeper into the car and driver review on the 2 liter 4 cylinder g70, and you'll see that it wasn't very impressive either. In summary, they said not to even bother with the manual transmission it was so uninspiring, it had slow acceleration for a modern turbo 4 (6.6 seconds to 60 mph), and the engine sounds like a blender.

They seemed somewhat impressed with its 0.91g on the skid pad and 161 foot stop from 70mph. They said the road handling was nearly as good as the 3.3L model that had wider stickier tires (0.95g). Now fast forward to the 330i that had 0.89g on the skid pad and stopped from 70 in 165 feet. Bear in mind that the 330i has run flat summer tires, and the g70 does not. Yet 0.89g on the skid pad for the 330i is "unimpressive" but 0.91g for the 2L g70 is somehow "nearly as good" as the 0.95g posted by the 3.3L g70 with wider, top quality summer tires? Hmm seems a bit inconsistent to me.

Bottom line is these reviews are entertaining to read, but don't make strong assumptions based on them. Obviously, the best way to judge is to take these cars on a test drive yourself.

Was the G70 4 cylinder a RWD or AWD variant?

[MT4life]

Originally Posted by Fuller

You understand it because there's a healthy serving of bull crap accompanying the g70 hype.

100% agreed. Huidai/Kia marketing machine is very strong. They haven't made anything special. Yes they're RWD and better than Optima and Sonata but that's about it. I'd personally take a Honda Accord 2.0T 6MT over G70 6MT any day

[upsidedownfunnel]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

You know, car&driver is not the ultimate authority in EPS. Just because they said it, that doesn’t mean it’s true. Multiple reviews have stated that G20 steering is best in class. (From the top of my mind: WhatCar) And based on my experience, WhatCar is the correct one. I mean, right now, I’m in Hawaii and rented a Camaro convertible, literally parked outside right at this moment, there’s no way this steering better than any BMW I’ve ever driven. Other than that the build quality, materials, brakes, are all awful. It feels like a $20K car.

The reason you can trust the larger publications a bit more than people like YouTube reviewers is because the YT reviewers live and die by their relationships with the carmakers. They don't have enough money to just rent or buy their cars so they can't be too negative about the cars otherwise they will not get priority reviews and be "FIRST" to review the hot new cars. After all, you just say a few good things about a car and the next time a new car comes out, BMW or whoever will remember that and prioritize you. What Car? is a car buyer magazine like Consumer Reports, not an enthusiast publication like C&D or R&T.

Larger companies like C&D aren't completely immune from that effect, but they can afford to be more critical. There is no reason for C&D to be critical unless what they're saying is true. The general consensus is that the steering is only slightly better than the F30 anyway. I have a Chevy SS sedan and I can say with absolute certainty the steering is better than my 2014 and a brand new 2018 340i with THP. The Alpha chassis Camaro is considered one of the best handling cars on the market. Certainly superior to the F30.

[anotheran]

Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel

The reason you can trust the larger publications a bit more than people like YouTube reviewers is because the YT reviewers live and die by their relationships with the carmakers. They don't have enough money to just rent or buy their cars so they can't be too negative about the cars otherwise they will not get priority reviews and be "FIRST" to review the hot new cars. After all, you just say a few good things about a car and the next time a new car comes out, BMW or whoever will remember that and prioritize you. What Car? is a car buyer magazine like Consumer Reports, not an enthusiast publication like C&D or R&T.

Larger companies like C&D aren't completely immune from that effect, but they can afford to be more critical. There is no reason for C&D to be critical unless what they're saying is true. The general consensus is that the steering is only slightly better than the F30 anyway. I have a Chevy SS sedan and I can say with absolute certainty the steering is better than my 2014 and a brand new 2018 340i with THP. The Alpha chassis Camaro is considered one of the best handling cars on the market. Certainly superior to the F30.

And big publications have real drivers like MT has Pobst. Everyone else is just as creditable as reading something from this forum

[wknddrivr]

Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel

The Alpha chassis Camaro is considered one of the best handling cars on the market. Certainly superior to the F30.

I have driven several Alpha platform Camaros...they absolutely blow away the F30 in terms of handling. If I had to describe how the Camaro handles, I'd say it feels like a larger E46, it's absolutely sublime

[ecaedus]

Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel

The reason you can trust the larger publications a bit more than people like YouTube reviewers is because the YT reviewers live and die by their relationships with the carmakers. They don't have enough money to just rent or buy their cars so they can't be too negative about the cars otherwise they will not get priority reviews and be "FIRST" to review the hot new cars. After all, you just say a few good things about a car and the next time a new car comes out, BMW or whoever will remember that and prioritize you. What Car? is a car buyer magazine like Consumer Reports, not an enthusiast publication like C&D or R&T.

Larger companies like C&D aren't completely immune from that effect, but they can afford to be more critical. There is no reason for C&D to be critical unless what they're saying is true. The general consensus is that the steering is only slightly better than the F30 anyway. I have a Chevy SS sedan and I can say with absolute certainty the steering is better than my 2014 and a brand new 2018 340i with THP. The Alpha chassis Camaro is considered one of the best handling cars on the market. Certainly superior to the F30.

honestly, sometimes i wish there could be a youtuber out there who review cars only to point out all their cons and faults, not a single word of praise. just pile out the cons in a 10min long video so i don't have to sift thru the overwhelming praises that all car reviewers seem to do for every single car out there these days. it's tiring.

Took a ride and drove a friend's SS, what a beast of a car. for the price it was miles beyond anything what BMW calls "sport sedan" these days. it's a shame people don't appreciate high horsepower sedans if they don't have a german badge on them.

[BigSky702]

Originally Posted by ecaedus

honestly, sometimes i wish there could be a youtuber out there who review cars only to point out all their cons and faults, not a single word of praise. just pile out the cons in a 10min long video so i don't have to sift thru the overwhelming praises that all car reviewers seem to do for every single car out there these days. it's tiring.

Took a ride and drove a friend's SS, what a beast of a car. for the price it was miles beyond anything what BMW calls "sport sedan" these days. it's a shame people don't appreciate high horsepower sedans if they don't have a german badge on them.

Cool car, I think I saw a mashup review comparing it to the Q50... Think Q50 bested in on a track, but that was in Colorado, higher altitude.

[SCMike]

I guess I don't understand all the whingeing about the F30 handling, at least for the post-LCI version with the Track Handling Package (which describes my F31 Sport Wagon). My F31 taken through the twisties always makes me smile. Somewhere out there is a utubie of a similar F31 on the track, reeling in the "real" sports cars in the corners (probably more a function of the excellent driver). My own point of reference is my 987.2 Boxster Spyder that is a garage buddy with the F31. For what it is, the Sport Wagon is no slouch.

If the G20 (which I have not personally experienced) represents an improvement on the LCI/ZTR F30, provided the right options are selected, I am at a loss as to the negativity. Regrettably, BMW has to sell a bazillion vehicles to all the mouth breathers to survive, but if the secret society members know the right boxes to check, what's the harm?

[z335is]

At some point BMW will have to stop making each successive generation bigger and heavier. It's gotten to the point now where the sheer size of the 3 series has to be impacting the performance / drive, which I'm sure is at least partially a factor here.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by z335is

At some point BMW will have to stop making each successive generation bigger and heavier. It's gotten to the point now where the sheer size of the 3 series has to be impacting the performance / drive, which I'm sure is at least partially a factor here.

I followed an E39 for a bit tonight. It's an inch narrower and only 2.6" longer than the G20. It seemed like a huge car at the time. I had my M Coupe and a friend had an M5 and I remember thinking I never wanted a car that big. Now that's effectively the smallest choice we have.

[hans007]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I followed an E39 for a bit tonight. It's an inch narrower and only 2.6" longer than the G20. It seemed like a huge car at the time. I had my M Coupe and a friend had an M5 and I remember thinking I never wanted a car that big. Now that's effectively the smallest choice we have.

First time I drove a bmw was an e46 coupe in the early 2000s. I do have to say if I wanted a coupe, i'd want one in that size.

But sitting in the back of a friends E46 for more than say 30 min, would make my knees ache from having to be bent at an angle so long (and i was like 23 years old when a friend got a lease special stripper e46 325i...) it was seriously cramped to sit in the back. I've never driven an E39, but my roomate had an E34 at the time and I felt like at least size wise for a sedan that was about the right size if you were actually carrying passengers. So in a way I'm kind of happy with the progression since the 5 series is huge now, and the G20 is roughly E34 sized (I wouldn't want a 5 series now I guess ,I suppose had they all just stayed the same size as back then, I'd be looking at a 5 series now).

At least the F22 is E46 coupe sized, so hopefully that still stays roughly the same size in the G series generation. The G22 coupe though, its definitely a going to be a bit large for a coupe if its going to share the G20 wheelbase. At least when you have a sedan, theres the idea that people are going to sit there pretty regularly so the longer length at least doesn't seem like just space you are filling up in a coupe.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

I still can't get over how it looks. That rear end...

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by ecaedus

honestly, sometimes i wish there could be a youtuber out there who review cars only to point out all their cons and faults, not a single word of praise. just pile out the cons in a 10min long video so i don't have to sift thru the overwhelming praises that all car reviewers seem to do for every single car out there these days. it's tiring.

Took a ride and drove a friend's SS, what a beast of a car. for the price it was miles beyond anything what BMW calls "sport sedan" these days. it's a shame people don't appreciate high horsepower sedans if they don't have a german badge on them.

It is a shame that there aren't more sport sedans like the Chevy ss to choose from. I had an ss sedan and I miss that ls3 like nothing else. In my opinion the ss isn't the most powerful or nimble car available but it just had a certain charisma that made it a lot of fun. Of course a large part of its charisma came from that 6.2L ls3.

That said, I don't think it should be compared to a 3 or 4 series. In my mind they're much different cars with different driving characteristics. Although the ss is actually fairly light for its dimensions, it still drove and handled like a big car imo. The steering feel in the ss is better, but to me my 435i just feels much more playful and athletic. I'm not saying that the ss wouldn't smoke a 435i around a track or road course, just that the f32/36 with sport suspension FEELS much more playful. The Chevy ss and a sport tuned 2, 3, or 435/40i simply offer a different type of experience.

I'll say it again, I do miss that car though.

[hans007]

Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel

The reason you can trust the larger publications a bit more than people like YouTube reviewers is because the YT reviewers live and die by their relationships with the carmakers. They don't have enough money to just rent or buy their cars so they can't be too negative about the cars otherwise they will not get priority reviews and be "FIRST" to review the hot new cars. After all, you just say a few good things about a car and the next time a new car comes out, BMW or whoever will remember that and prioritize you. What Car? is a car buyer magazine like Consumer Reports, not an enthusiast publication like C&D or R&T.

Larger companies like C&D aren't completely immune from that effect, but they can afford to be more critical. There is no reason for C&D to be critical unless what they're saying is true. The general consensus is that the steering is only slightly better than the F30 anyway. I have a Chevy SS sedan and I can say with absolute certainty the steering is better than my 2014 and a brand new 2018 340i with THP. The Alpha chassis Camaro is considered one of the best handling cars on the market. Certainly superior to the F30.

if anything that is why what car? and consumer reports though people
can trust more as they aren't beholden to getting free test drives, flown out to test sites etc. Unfortunately they don't have drivers who track / race cars (at least in consumer reports case) so they can't give a very educated opinion there. Manufacturers that you count on for review cars aren't going to like it if every single review you give is terrible. Or maybe a manufacturer is buying huge back page ads in your magazine, and you have to take that into account. Maybe BMW got off the car and driver "nice" list, you never know.

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I followed an E39 for a bit tonight. It's an inch narrower and only 2.6" longer than the G20. It seemed like a huge car at the time. I had my M Coupe and a friend had an M5 and I remember thinking I never wanted a car that big. Now that's effectively the smallest choice we have.

If the 3 has gotten too big for your liking, there's always the 2 series.

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by SCMike

I guess I don't understand all the whingeing about the F30 handling, at least for the post-LCI version with the Track Handling Package (which describes my F31 Sport Wagon). My F31 taken through the twisties always makes me smile. Somewhere out there is a utubie of a similar F31 on the track, reeling in the "real" sports cars in the corners (probably more a function of the excellent driver). My own point of reference is my 987.2 Boxster Spyder that is a garage buddy with the F31. For what it is, the Sport Wagon is no slouch.

If the G20 (which I have not personally experienced) represents an improvement on the LCI/ZTR F30, provided the right options are selected, I am at a loss as to the negativity. Regrettably, BMW has to sell a bazillion vehicles to all the mouth breathers to survive, but if the secret society members know the right boxes to check, what's the harm?

It's because many people read a luke warm car review and it influences how they perceive the car. For example, if the main stream car periodicals didn't start talking about numb steering in the f30, I'm convinced that the majority of enthusiasts who drove one wouldn't have noticed, or gave it a single thought.

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by anotheran

And big publications have real drivers like MT has Pobst. Everyone else is just as creditable as reading something from this forum

Big publications might have some big names, but that doesn't mean they can't spew bull crap. Talented people and celebrities spew bullshit as often as anyone else, perhaps more often if they have incentive to do so, and can get away with it. If I see something that looks like bullshit, I'm going to call it as I see it, regardless of who's name is associated with it.

[SCMike]

For a real world review of a properly optioned G20 see:
https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1600140
This makes some of the stuff cranked out by the professional scribblers look a bit vacuous.

[trey100]

Originally Posted by BimmerFix

That was one article, and that was a pre production demo Car. They even mentioned that hopefully the production car would have the new steering Rack . So we shall see I guess, I doubt BMW puts the old F30 rack in the M340i , the most sportiest current available 3er.

I did not read that caveat in the article. It simply stated that the 340 received the old F30 rack unlike the 330. They changed the ratio only. Can you point to where they noted it could be a pre-production issue?

[RM7]

Originally Posted by RPM1123

Thought it was going to be a base car. The fact that it was an M-sport with "M suspension" and still got a lukewarm response does not bode well for the heavier M340i.

But it wasn't, it was an x-drive. BMW has been using the "M-sport" name on the x-drive 3/4 series for years, but they don't spec sport/705 suspension on it, so it ends up just being fascia, steering wheel, etc. Sometimes you can get the adaptive dampers, but the suspension generally remains soft, weak sway bars, etc. It's been disappointing that they handicap the x-drive 3/4 series so badly. The claim that they are "mostly RWD" is BS too IME. It's not enough bias to come close to giving you similar handling. Only by lowering, stiffening the damping rates and going with thicker sways did I approach what I felt was more in line with "sport" suspension and handling, except that dead spot in the middle of the steering was still there.

[BimmerFix]

Originally Posted by trey100

I did not read that caveat in the article. It simply stated that the 340 received the old F30 rack unlike the 330. They changed the ratio only. Can you point to where they noted it could be a pre-production issue?

My mistake, read the whole thread