06-18-2019, 06:56 AM | #23 | |
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It's more of a sportier 3 series which is perfectly fine. ///M changed to marketing and apparently they are even better at it than ///Motorsports.
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06-18-2019, 07:02 AM | #24 | |
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I had an M4 , wanted a change, and will probably revisit ///M again along the lines of a G80 or F90. Each line serves a purpose, doesn't necessarily make it "better"... as long as it fits your needs ... great!
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06-18-2019, 08:23 AM | #25 | |
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BMW has a clear hierarchy for each vehicle, and the M2 obviously sits above the M240i in the exact same way that the M3 sits above the M340i. Exact content varies from product line to product line - you either find enough value in the upgrades to spring for the proper M model, or you don't and you choose the M Performance model or something else instead. I didn't see any evidence of someone "arguing a beefed up 330i is an M car variation" so that part seems off base. That said, the M Sport package clearly leverages the "M" brand (and has been for decades), and cars with such a package obviously have their place in the hierarchy as well, sitting just below the M Performance vehicles. |
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06-18-2019, 08:30 AM | #26 | |
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That's where, I think, you are wrong. M cars in stock form do not survive racing or constant track duty - everything will fail - brakes first, suspension second, gearbox third and eventually engine. They are built for daily driving first and track second. I have had many M cars throughout the years and spend a lot of time on the track with those cars. Out of 20 years of experience - here are my thoughts – M cars make great dual purpose cars (fun on the street and usable on the track) - but having said that - they do not quite excel in either. They definitely have compromises on the street (Uncomfortable, finicky, demanding to everyday use and maintenance) and at the end of the day are not perfect track weapons (too heavy, too luxurious, too complex and filled with compromises). I'd even go as far as to say - M cars - are great dual purpose/track cars for people learning to drive. Beginner and intermediate groups on track do great with those cars. When you start moving up to advanced groups and instructor - you see less and less of unmodified M cars. First - small modifications start - Brakes, Fluid, and Pads. The harder you drive the more you feel the weight - so the weight starts to come off - remove interior pieces, lighter seats. Improve Safety – next - harnesses, roll cages, fire extinguishers, plastic glass, no airbags. Full Suspension upgrades come next - coil overs and camber plates. Next thing you know - the car is not street-able any more or it takes forever to convert it back. So inevitably you end up with a truck towing a track prepared BMW or better - Mazda Miata - it is not an M car anymore - it is a dedicated track shell of a car |
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06-18-2019, 09:10 AM | #27 | |
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2017 BMW 530i, Sport Line,Alpine White, Canberra Beige Sensatec, 19 inch V-Spoke wheels, basic plain Jane build with no options whatsoever..... "Less is more".
Before: 2011 BMW 328i E90 sedan, Platinum Bronze Metallic, Dakota Brown leather, 17 inch wheels, 6-speed auto, N52 6 Cyl inline N/A goodness.... |
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06-18-2019, 10:38 AM | #28 |
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I believe the new 330i XDrive has a 0-60 of 5.2 seconds which is not too shabby.
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06-18-2019, 10:50 AM | #29 | |
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20+ years later a "base" new 3-Series runs circles around an E36 M3 and accomplishes this with a 2 liter turbo. And it is not that far off from the E46 M3. Today's M340i is as fast 0-60 as the V8 equipped E90 M3 was from just a decade ago. These were 0-60 cars in the 4.1 sec range. I believe the horsepower wars of the last 25 years have done both good and bad. There was a time when a regular BMW automobile was not the fastest or most powerful but offered the most balance of the bunch. And yes the vast majority of non-M vintage Bimmers were slow cars by today's standards.
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06-18-2019, 11:36 AM | #30 | ||
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At the end of the day people will think what they want and that's fine, it's a free world, mostly. My current 3CS is a lease I'm transferring soon then I'm switching to Porsche (only stating this to indicate my unbiased opinion). All BMW cars are great in my opinion for their specific purpose.
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06-18-2019, 11:40 AM | #31 |
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That's why I said should be. Maybe they never were, or maybe they aren't anymore. You'd know better than me.
What I simply meant was ///Motorsport designed and developed vehicles should be designed for the track more than the street. Keyword is= should be.
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06-18-2019, 02:05 PM | #32 | |||
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06-18-2019, 02:58 PM | #33 |
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The new M340i matches the performance of the late V8 E90 M3 and definitely faster than M3s that preceded it.
However the question open to debate is the G20 M340i as engaging and "visceral" as the normally aspirated E90 M3? Remember the current F80 M3 was the first ever turbocharged M3 (Or was that the E30 M3?). The F80 signaled the transition away from the old school M3 mantra... Turbos, electric power steering, routed engine sounds, etc.
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06-18-2019, 06:17 PM | #34 | |
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06-18-2019, 11:21 PM | #35 |
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We're all well aware that m-cars are sprinkled with the ///Magic dust. We know that the ///Magic elevates it to more than a mere bmw. It's not just a means of stylish transport. It can elevate one as much as it can accelerate. In an m-car, one doesn't merely drive, but the fiber of one's very being becomes driven. Driver and machine become fused, nervous system branching into chassis, hands and arms contiguous with the steering column, brain communicating with idrive in real time, suspension adapting to moods and whims, moods and whims adapting to the ///Magic. Human and machine becoming something more than the sum of their parts. The synergy of flesh with stardust realized on the track or perhaps a twisty back road on the way to utopia.
We realize that the m340i, m240i and whatever else can't offer the true ///M experience. They are pretty good cars in their own right though. They won't change your life, or who you are, but they are a comfortable, practical, and fun way to get around on a daily basis. That's all. |
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06-19-2019, 12:06 AM | #36 | |
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That ///Magic must only be present at the limit, because the M4 was fatiguing as hell during daily city driving... ( 3 years ). Don't get me wrong, it's a fun car, but has it fair share of warts! Wanna make your M340 visceral, down pipe and tune or just buy a full ///M. Want life changing? Get a Bugatti.
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06-19-2019, 06:59 AM | #37 | ||
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06-19-2019, 11:26 AM | #38 | ||
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06-19-2019, 11:43 AM | #39 |
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Lets apply some mathematics
M=AMG M340i = AMG C43 AMG C43 = AMG Therefore, M340i = M. That is to say--if AMG C43 is a real AMG then M340i is a real M. Math doesn't lie. |
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06-19-2019, 01:13 PM | #41 | |
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Once the car is rolling at speed, the B46 loses steam compared the S52 in the E36 M3 which just keeps pulling. Throw the 330i in to sport or sport+ and the shifter into sport mode go up a hill and floor it. It doesn't pull as hard as the E36 M3. I'm willing to bet a skilled driver can get the E36 M3 around a twisty road course quicker than a 330i M-Sport due to the lower weight and more communicative steering its easy to get the E36 very close to its limit without exceeding it, and you don't have to scrub as much speed as you do in the G20. The G20 doesn't do a great job communicating what's happening at the limit causing the driver to lose confidence even if the car technically can handle more. Guaranteed that the M340 though would destroy the E36 M3. Regardless of which one handles better/is more agile, the G20 M340 has more than enough power to ham fist your way through any situation and outgun the E36 M3. I'm very impressed by the G20 and I think a 330i M-Sport exceeds the performance of the E36 M3 in some ways but not all. Thats very impressive for a base level car. But the two cars do this in very different ways and the sensations between an E36 M3 and a 330i M-Sport are vastly different. The 330 is numb, the E36 gives you tons of steering feedback, auditory feedback, throttle/brake pedal feedback, and chassis feedback through the seat...g20, basically nothing |
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06-19-2019, 03:16 PM | #42 | |
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06-19-2019, 06:07 PM | #43 |
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I think the argument is more about trickle down technology. Meaning the second highest tier 3 series on the new platform (M340) is more comparable to the highest tier 3 series car of the F platform. I personally believe they are are NOT equal, but I don't think anyone is arguing an M340 will be equivalent to the G80 M3. But the M340 does rival the F80 on paper, I think it comes up short, but not as short as it will to the G80.
It's like bicycle components. Thai years 105s, are better than 3 year old Ultegras. My opinion is the m340 will check MANY boxes, and it will fulfill many of the boxes of current F80 drivers, but it's still not fully on par driving wise. But it is a compelling vehicle. Albeit, I think the F30/f80 looks better. But I'm sure that will change with time |
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06-20-2019, 09:42 AM | #44 |
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The M340 is very nice for what it is, but it is nowhere near M car territory and like others have said, BMW has no intentions of it being so.
M cars are about more than just 0-60, it's about the driving experience and how the car just feels "special". It's hard to explain really, but the M340 just doesn't have that "it" factor, so I won't even attempt to compare it to any M car past or present. And just to clarify, I have test driven the M340 and thought it was great and would definitely pick it over an S4 or C43. But I would never consider it over an F8x or even a lightly used E9x. |
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