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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions M440i test: 0-62, 1/4 mile, sound, acceleration on winter tires

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      01-07-2021, 07:05 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullthrottlebg View Post
And yup, it's a shame everyone only talks about the looks of the car, while completely ignoring that the new 4 series might be one of the best driver cars made in years.
Unfortunately, it is far from a "drivers car."
It is a very quick car. Straight line, the car punches above it's weight.
However, that's where the performance ends. Even on summer tires, the car simply doesn't perform like a "drivers car."
Here is a quick excerpt: Even with 19-inch Michelin Pilot Sport 4S summer tires (18s with all-seasons are standard), it managed only 0.91 g of skidpad grip, and understeer dominates. We've recorded more stick from the newest 3-series and even some family sedans, although our car did stop from 70 mph in a short 149 feet. or Here is another: There's no doubt that the M440i drives better than it looks. Understand, though, that it isn't a 3 Series coupe. Like the finest GT cars, the M440i is capable but distances its driver from the machinery underneath. It's powerful, poised, and easy to drive fast. Yet there's incredibly little sensation of speed, and the feelings of connection and involvement that true driver's cars offer are all but absent.

Don't think I'm raining on your parade, I'm sure its fun to drive quickly, but "drivers car" it is not. Maybe the lighter 430i will closer to what BMWs of yore were famous for?
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      01-07-2021, 07:22 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Rasco View Post
A GT car should still be a good drivers car, not a comfortable car that's fast in a straight line, the GT aspect does not excuse the poor handling and chassis balance noted. the guy has a very valid point.

As to the looks, obviously it's not as important for some, to me I couldn't love a car with a face like a bucket of smashed crabs, that's just me, however if it is such a good car underneath (I reserve judgment here) then doesn't that make you even more annoyed they made it so ugly? To me that's even more annoying!
Which expert said it has poor handling? How about this and we will agree to disagree.

https://www.driverdb.com/drivers/paul-oneill/

Paul O'Neill is not some Youtube celeb who thinks they are a car expert. He is a driver. Yes?

Listen to what he says and watch him drive it.


What more needs to be said. But it's ugly though right?
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      01-07-2021, 07:36 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rux View Post
Awesome Video.

The M440i is completely shrugged off by some due to the grille, so called muted lines and curb weight. They are not seeing how well the car performs vs previous models. Sprint mode for example is crazy in the 21 M440i. I have heard only 1 reviewer even mention it.

I absolutely love this car for what it is purpose driven to be: A GT car I can daily drive which loads of power if I want or refined comfort if I need it.

Can you imagine how fast an xDrive M4 will be?

People can like what they want but those who are shrugging it off are really missing out.
The problem isn't that the G22/G8X are not good cars or that they are lackluster performers.

The problem is that the value proposition in the overall market has become saturated with decently competitive alternatives - if you consider an MxDrive G82 is $20K away from an F90 the context starts to change. Couple that with the fact that the G30/F90 chassis is only slightly heavier, has an arguably more premium interior, does not bear the scarlet grille on its face and you're left with the profound question of, "why did I choose this?".

Unless you're adamant about an MT with 4 doors (G80), I'm not so certain the G22/G82 makes a compelling argument.
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      01-07-2021, 08:02 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Inductive View Post
The problem isn't that the G22/G8X are not good cars or that they are lackluster performers.

The problem is that the value proposition in the overall market has become saturated with decently competitive alternatives - if you consider an MxDrive G82 is $20K away from an F90 the context starts to change. Couple that with the fact that the G30/F90 chassis is only slightly heavier, has an arguably more premium interior, does not bear the scarlet grille on its face and you're left with the profound question of, "why did I choose this?".

Unless you're adamant about an MT with 4 doors (G80), I'm not so certain the G22/G82 makes a compelling argument.
A valuable and coherent counterpoint. Passion for autos, agree or disagree, is an awesome thing and worth more to me than any brand whom I owe nothing to. I appreciate you all even if you think my car is ugly.
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      01-07-2021, 08:17 PM   #27
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Yes, it could be said the M440i is a modern drivers car. The problem is that many reviewers are stuck in the 1990s and 2000s in terms of their concept of what a “drivers car” is.

As always, perspective is key. Before G22 production ends we’ll see electric, semi autonomous cars become more common, and perhaps with the exception of select few Porsche models, the GT86 and Miata, the death of manual transmission. Given these unfortunate inevitabilities, a 4,000 pound M440i doesn’t seem too bad.

Also, the lighter, more balanced RWD M440i model is forthcoming as well...
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      01-07-2021, 08:20 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullthrottlebg View Post
Thank you very much! Glad that you enjoyed it.

And yup, it's a shame everyone only talks about the looks of the car, while completely ignoring that the new 4 series might be one of the best driver cars made in years. Superb comfort and refinement and yet a brutal engine and tons of power.

Hopefully as some time passes, people will get used to the looks and will start to acknowledge the other aspects of the car.

The AWD M4 will def do 3.5 from 0-62. Maybe even faster.
I don't think anyone is disputing the level of performance or comfort. But given its hugely increased proportions, additional weight and subjective front end design it has left many enthusiasts baffled as it is such a huge departure from its predecessor.
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      01-07-2021, 08:36 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDMG20 View Post
no, when I down shift in to a lower gear (ex. 5th to 4th) of course there is a little more power available, but when you hold the left paddle shifter for 1-2 seconds you will remain in 4th and the RPM's will sky rocket. I've only tried this 2-3 times, but I can confirm that I have sprint mode. Do you have paddles?
My 2020 330i sportline doesn't have sprint mode. I tried it an hour or so ago to see if I have it. Nope. I tried various combos with the left paddle shifter and gear selector. Nothing could get sprint mode to activate.
Only thing that happened was what I mentioned. My car downshifts to the lowest possible gear when I keep the left paddle shifter pressed for a few seconds. Say I'm I'm 5th and driving at around 2k RPMs. Click downshift paddle once and it goes to 4th. I released and long pressed it. Instead of shifting to 3rd, it downshifted to 2nd. No sprint mode though.
When I'm in 5th at 2k RPMs and long pressed the downshift paddle, it downshifted to 3rd IIRC. But yes. No sprint mode.
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      01-07-2021, 08:51 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullthrottlebg View Post
The AWD M4 will def do 3.5 from 0-62. Maybe even faster.
Who cares, a $55k Tesla does 3.1. Straight line speed is lame.

Build a lighter more agile M4 then they would have something. Instead we get a big fatty ugly car.
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      01-07-2021, 08:57 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fullthrottlebg View Post
Thank you very much! Glad that you enjoyed it.

And yup, it's a shame everyone only talks about the looks of the car, while completely ignoring that the new 4 series might be one of the best driver cars made in years. Superb comfort and refinement and yet a brutal engine and tons of power.

Hopefully as some time passes, people will get used to the looks and will start to acknowledge the other aspects of the car.

The AWD M4 will def do 3.5 from 0-62. Maybe even faster.
Considering the X3M did 3.3 the M3 better beat that!
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      01-07-2021, 09:30 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rux View Post
Awesome Video.

The M440i is completely shrugged off by some due to the grille, so called muted lines and curb weight. They are not seeing how well the car performs vs previous models. Sprint mode for example is crazy in the 21 M440i. I have heard only 1 reviewer even mention it.

I absolutely love this car for what it is purpose driven to be: A GT car I can daily drive which loads of power if I want or refined comfort if I need it.

Can you imagine how fast an xDrive M4 will be?

People can like what they want but those who are shrugging it off are really missing out.
Ugly face, overweight, not RWD. What's there to like ?
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      01-07-2021, 09:51 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep View Post
Unfortunately, it is far from a "drivers car."
It is a very quick car. Straight line, the car punches above it's weight.
However, that's where the performance ends. Even on summer tires, the car simply doesn't perform like a "drivers car."
Here is a quick excerpt: Even with 19-inch Michelin Pilot Sport 4S summer tires (18s with all-seasons are standard), it managed only 0.91 g of skidpad grip, and understeer dominates. We've recorded more stick from the newest 3-series and even some family sedans, although our car did stop from 70 mph in a short 149 feet. or Here is another: There's no doubt that the M440i drives better than it looks. Understand, though, that it isn't a 3 Series coupe. Like the finest GT cars, the M440i is capable but distances its driver from the machinery underneath. It's powerful, poised, and easy to drive fast. Yet there's incredibly little sensation of speed, and the feelings of connection and involvement that true driver's cars offer are all but absent.

Don't think I'm raining on your parade, I'm sure its fun to drive quickly, but "drivers car" it is not. Maybe the lighter 430i will closer to what BMWs of yore were famous for?
By driver's car, I'm of course comparing it to its modern competitors, such as the audi S5, the C43amg and so on and by those standarts, boy this is a drivers car. Yes, comparing it to a much older and more mechanical car like the M2, or the past M3, it does feel bigger, heavier and so on, but that's the case with all new models and the trend is not going to stop or reverse.

Also really doubt those ski pad results. The 4 series felt much grippier than the M340 and to make it understeer you got to try pretty hard.
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      01-07-2021, 09:53 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackmamba3 View Post
Yes, it could be said the M440i is a modern drivers car. The problem is that many reviewers are stuck in the 1990s and 2000s in terms of their concept of what a “drivers car” is.

As always, perspective is key. Before G22 production ends we’ll see electric, semi autonomous cars become more common, and perhaps with the exception of select few Porsche models, the GT86 and Miata, the death of manual transmission. Given these unfortunate inevitabilities, a 4,000 pound M440i doesn’t seem too bad.

Also, the lighter, more balanced RWD M440i model is forthcoming as well...
Absolutely agree. Yes, the new 4 series might not be like the E46 M3, but compares to the other new models, such as the Audi S5 etc, it really is and that's something becoming more rare with every year.
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      01-07-2021, 09:55 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikester19 View Post
I don't think anyone is disputing the level of performance or comfort. But given its hugely increased proportions, additional weight and subjective front end design it has left many enthusiasts baffled as it is such a huge departure from its predecessor.
As a F36 4 series owner, I must say the new car is better in 99% ways imaginable. Better steering, better grip on the front, engine is another story. it's also much quieter with much better interior. The only thing that has become worse is the weight and the car feel a little more numb when driven hard.
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      01-07-2021, 09:56 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
Considering the X3M did 3.3 the M3 better beat that!
Yup, it will be a bit awkward going into the M5 territory. But then again with this weight, they are not that different.
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      01-07-2021, 11:01 PM   #37
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The “ultimate driving machine” debate slays me. Half of all BMWs are SUVs. Most 5s and 7s are executive or senior citizen cruisers. The 3 is a “sports sedan” and the 4 is a “sports coupe or convertible.” The 2, M3, M5 are damn good driving machines, but they are not sports cars in the true sense. And... probably far fewer than half of the non SUV units are driven “ultimately” on the street, and fewer than maybe 5% will ever see any kind of track other than a railroad crossing.

A GT car is generally defined as combining luxury or comfort with performance (not just speed) and sports styling. Based on that and the builds that 3 and 4 owners on here post, I would propose that the performance oriented 3 and 4 series cars actually fall more into the GT category, as does the C8 Corvette, which btw with only two seats and a plastic body weighs in at 3700 pounds and a balance of 40/60 so weight ratio alone can be deceiving.

Whether you like the styling of the styling of the G22 or not, it falls into to GT category, and that is not necessarily a bad “drivers car.”
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      01-07-2021, 11:04 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDMG20 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blubaron79 View Post
Sprint mode. Do you mean launch control?
"By engaging the left-hand shift paddle for longer than a second, you can call up Sprint mode, in which the alternator provides an additional 11bhp and a good dollop of torque."

My 2020 330i Msport, with the track handling pack has this as well. you simply hold the left paddle for more than 1 second and instant power..
Huh? So I just hold down the left shift paddle whenever?

Confused.. My 2021 says 'Eboost' when I floor it.
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      01-07-2021, 11:06 PM   #39
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Since we want to keep harping on "true driver's car" and "E46 M3", I'll just drop a reminder that the E46 only pulled 0.86 on the skidpad.

0.91 > 0.86.

Maybe pick a different aspect to argue over to quantify what constitutes a "driver's car".
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      01-08-2021, 12:44 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete View Post
Since we want to keep harping on "true driver's car" and "E46 M3", I'll just drop a reminder that the E46 only pulled 0.86 on the skidpad.

0.91 > 0.86.

Maybe pick a different aspect to argue over to quantify what constitutes a "driver's car".
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      01-08-2021, 01:11 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rux View Post
People can like what they want but those who are shrugging it off are really missing out.
4 and 6 series used to be prettier, less practical versions of 3/5 series.
4 series is now just a less practical one. I'd take m340i over m440i without any hesitation.
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      01-08-2021, 02:06 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete View Post
Since we want to keep harping on "true driver's car" and "E46 M3", I'll just drop a reminder that the E46 only pulled 0.86 on the skidpad.

0.91 > 0.86.

Maybe pick a different aspect to argue over to quantify what constitutes a "driver's car".
Tires are one huge factor! But skid pad numbers do not make a car drivers car. Specs in general do not make a car drivers car.

As an F32 435xd owner new 4 series felt numb, bigger, heavier. Felt like I had jumped from 3 series coupe to a 6 series. And F32 was not a drivers car either but I liked the looks, practicality of a rear biased awd and a tow hook that most coupes do not offer. M2 was a drivers car that I really enjoyed.

New 4 series interior feels much nicer with the exception of the digital gauges.

As M2 is out of production it seems like Toyota Supra is the closest to the slogan “Ultimate Drivers Machine” 6 years ago when I bought the F32 I would never have tought that my next car would be a Yaris with a GR badge.

Seems like it is time to move on from BMW.
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      01-08-2021, 03:30 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blubaron79 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDMG20 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blubaron79 View Post
Sprint mode. Do you mean launch control?
"By engaging the left-hand shift paddle for longer than a second, you can call up Sprint mode, in which the alternator provides an additional 11bhp and a good dollop of torque."

My 2020 330i Msport, with the track handling pack has this as well. you simply hold the left paddle for more than 1 second and instant power..
Huh? So I just hold down the left shift paddle whenever?

Confused.. My 2021 says 'Eboost' when I floor it.
Hey, yeah you can do this in any gear. It's used for "overtaking" if you just hold the left paddle it should active sprint mode!
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      01-08-2021, 04:10 AM   #44
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