[Inductive]

Originally Posted by Rux

A valuable and coherent counterpoint. Passion for autos, agree or disagree, is an awesome thing and worth more to me than any brand whom I owe nothing to. I appreciate you all even if you think my car is ugly.

As a counterpoint, I've been speculating the aftermarket potential to replace the entire front fascia. I would actually consider the G82 if a coherently designed fascia becomes available.

But the cost and hassle of such an extensive modification on a $90K vehicle is cringeworthy.

At the end of the day, it might just be better value to order a 718 GT4 and leave BMW to their confused design ethos.

[franzzz]

Originally Posted by Inductive

As a counterpoint, I've been speculating the aftermarket potential to replace the entire front fascia. I would actually consider the G82 if a coherently designed fascia becomes available.

But the cost and hassle of such an extensive modification on a $90K vehicle is cringeworthy.

At the end of the day, it might just be better value to order a 718 GT4 and leave BMW to their confused design ethos.

I agree

[rideontwo]

Every iteration of the top trim BMW 3 series (not M) since the E90/92 era has put up very strong numbers from the get go. In the U.S. market buyers, reviewers, magazines are all WOW'd and statements like "BMW underrated the HP/TQ numbers." start to come out.

Then, like clockwork, 1 year later BMW issues a DME/ECU update to detune the initial batch of cars. Owners come on to Bimmerpost and complain how their car just isn't fast anymore since the mandatory software update. Somehow I do not think this time around will be any different. I look forward to another generation of similarities with the G22 Coupe.

[Rux]

Originally Posted by Inductive

As a counterpoint, I've been speculating the aftermarket potential to replace the entire front fascia. I would actually consider the G82 if a coherently designed fascia becomes available.

But the cost and hassle of such an extensive modification on a $90K vehicle is cringeworthy.

At the end of the day, it might just be better value to order a 718 GT4 and leave BMW to their confused design ethos.

The GT4 is an amazing car. 50 grand more than the M440 though and if I am going full send, for me, I would bu an M5 Comp in full sleeper spec and anger these Hand Me Down Harrys even more.


AC Schnitzer has a few pieces and eventually I will get them once complete. Until then, I will do what I did for Christmas time:

[Beemer5to3]

I can't fathom how it can feel faster than an M550i...I suspect if you put them together there is only going to be one winner.

[Adris]

beautiful car from every angle, it is sad, that this grill thing became a cult

[chriscam95]

Originally Posted by Rux

Awesome Video.

The M440i is completely shrugged off by some due to the grille, so called muted lines and curb weight. They are not seeing how well the car performs vs previous models. Sprint mode for example is crazy in the 21 M440i. I have heard only 1 reviewer even mention it.

I absolutely love this car for what it is purpose driven to be: A GT car I can daily drive which loads of power if I want or refined comfort if I need it.

Can you imagine how fast an xDrive M4 will be?

People can like what they want but those who are shrugging it off are really missing out.

I'm sorry but this is just giving the appearance far too much of an excuse and dismissing the importance of needing to actually have a car you want to turn around and look back at proudly when you walk away each day.

People keep trying to act like our criticism for it's appearance is solely subjective and that we're just too conservative to accept change, but quite frankly this design is OBJECTIVELY bad.

When you have professional automotive designers, to include former BMW cadre, disgusted by it's looks and overall design inconsistencies, it says something. It says that this isn't subjective, it's objectively bad design.

In my personal opinion, buying this, the new M3/M4, or the iX is telling BMW you're okay with this current head designer destroying the brand's historic identity for "edgy" vehicles that lack any positive visual personality. I could LOVE how it drives, but I will not give BMW a sale metric that's in any way supportive of these... things. These are not the same as Bangle's controversial designs, they're modern day Pontiac Aztecs. Bangle's criticism was subjective, because objectively the designs had meaning, purpose, and consistency.

Out of curiousity for the average consumer's opinion, I recently asked a friend who has no strong interest in cars (other than her occasionally finding certain cars "cute" or "pretty") what they thought of the design, and the immediate thing they said to me was "Ew, it looks like an Angry Bird pig." That's what BMW has created to the average person, Angry Bird pigs..

Just as Matt Farah from the Smoking Tire said in his review

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3MD_900Nxg

"It's a heinous looking car...Just how it looks would keep me out of it. This thing could be the best driving car in the world, but no thank you."

[Rux]

Originally Posted by chriscam95

I'm sorry but this is just giving the appearance far too much of an excuse and dismissing the importance of needing to actually have a car you want to turn around and look back at proudly when you walk away each day.

People keep trying to act like our criticism for it's appearance is solely subjective and that we're just too conservative to accept change, but quite frankly this design is OBJECTIVELY bad.

When you have professional automotive designers, to include former BMW cadre, disgusted by it's looks and overall design inconsistencies, it says something. It says that this isn't subjective, it's objectively bad design.

In my personal opinion, buying this, the new M3/M4, or the iX is telling BMW you're okay with this current head designer destroying the brand's historic identity for "edgy" vehicles that lack any positive visual personality. I could LOVE how it drives, but I will not give BMW a sale metric that's in any way supportive of these... things. These are not the same as Bangle's controversial designs, they're modern day Pontiac Aztecs. Bangle's criticism was subjective, because objectively the designs had meaning, purpose, and consistency.

Out of curiousity for the average consumer's opinion, I recently asked a friend who has no strong interest in cars (other than her occasionally finding certain cars "cute" or "pretty") what they thought of the design, and the immediate thing they said to me was "Ew, it looks like an Angry Bird pig." That's what BMW has created to the average person, Angry Bird pigs..

Just as Matt Farah from the Smoking Tire said in his review

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3MD_900Nxg

"It's a heinous looking car...Just how it looks would keep me out of it. This thing could be the best driving car in the world, but no thank you."

ok

[///Mcarfan]

Originally Posted by chriscam95

I'm sorry but this is just giving the appearance far too much of an excuse and dismissing the importance of needing to actually have a car you want to turn around and look back at proudly when you walk away each day.

People keep trying to act like our criticism for it's appearance is solely subjective and that we're just too conservative to accept change, but quite frankly this design is OBJECTIVELY bad.

When you have professional automotive designers, to include former BMW cadre, disgusted by it's looks and overall design inconsistencies, it says something. It says that this isn't subjective, it's objectively bad design.

In my personal opinion, buying this, the new M3/M4, or the iX is telling BMW you're okay with this current head designer destroying the brand's historic identity for "edgy" vehicles that lack any positive visual personality. I could LOVE how it drives, but I will not give BMW a sale metric that's in any way supportive of these... things. These are not the same as Bangle's controversial designs, they're modern day Pontiac Aztecs. Bangle's criticism was subjective, because objectively the designs had meaning, purpose, and consistency.

Out of curiousity for the average consumer's opinion, I recently asked a friend who has no strong interest in cars (other than her occasionally finding certain cars "cute" or "pretty") what they thought of the design, and the immediate thing they said to me was "Ew, it looks like an Angry Bird pig." That's what BMW has created to the average person, Angry Bird pigs..

Just as Matt Farah from the Smoking Tire said in his review

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3MD_900Nxg

"It's a heinous looking car...Just how it looks would keep me out of it. This thing could be the best driving car in the world, but no thank you."

Well said. If anyone like this car and want to own it, more power to you.
But don't be surprised or defensive when most people don't agree that your car looks good or it's worth the cost.

I'd assume owners know their cars are objectively unattractive and are totally ok with it.
Gotta have the stomach for being edgy and controversial.

[iM3an]

When it was warmer I was able to get 3.9 with all season run flats, imagine if i was running summers/performance tires.

[i128]

Even if the thread topic was about performance or wipers, all threads on this forum since the beginning of time containing an image of the G32 or G80/2 M3/M4 has gotten highjacked by "that grill" in all cases 25 + off topic comments/replies minimum!

Can't wait to see end of year sales figures for this car. Only at that point we will true know if all "that grill" was worthy of all this chatter.

[cfm56d7b]

Great video - well done.

M440i is here. I think the car's engineering accomplishments speak for themselves.

The visual design - as with any other radical departure - will be validated more so by sales numbers and less so by rhetoric.

[adc]

Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete

Since we want to keep harping on "true driver's car" and "E46 M3", I'll just drop a reminder that the E46 only pulled 0.86 on the skidpad.

0.91 > 0.86.

Maybe pick a different aspect to argue over to quantify what constitutes a "driver's car".

An E46 on modern tires will post similar numbers. Let’s not forget the E46 M3 is almost 21 years old... and huge strides were made in tire technology.

A car is usually labeled as a driver’s car when it provides the necessary feedback to the driver so you can tell what is going on, and faithfully translates the driver’s inputs into actual on the road behavior. When this two way flow is palpable, you have a driver’s car. The actual skid pad and acceleration numbers are irrelevant, and how well you can control the proceedings is key, especially on the limit.

I have a nice E46 330ci in the garage, running on good all season tires. Definitely a driver’s car even though it cannot even begin to touch the performance envelope of my M3.

Cannot comment on the M440i since I haven’t driven it.

[Blubaron79]

Originally Posted by EDMG20

Hey, yeah you can do this in any gear. It's used for "overtaking" if you just hold the left paddle it should active sprint mode!

I have an M340i 2021... I'll give it a shot later today, and hopefully not put it in a ditch.

[TheStanman]

The new 4-series is a remarkable change in what it's trying to be. I think it's actually pretty good for what it's trying to be - a luxury GT.

People are upset because it's such an unexpected change in intent. If you were a buyer of previous gens, there's a good chance you're not longer a target customer (I fall into that bucket).

While it's not a "drivers car", it does succeed at being a 6-series successor or Audi.

[Fullthrottlebg]

Originally Posted by Beemer5to3

I can't fathom how it can feel faster than an M550i...I suspect if you put them together there is only going to be one winner.

FEEL here is the key word. While the M550 with 530 hp with obviously be the faster car (even though not by much with both cars doing around 4 sec 0-62) the M550 is so big and isolated that you never really get the sense that you're going fast.

[Fullthrottlebg]

Originally Posted by adc

An E46 on modern tires will post similar numbers. Let’s not forget the E46 M3 is almost 21 years old... and huge strides were made in tire technology.

A car is usually labeled as a driver’s car when it provides the necessary feedback to the driver so you can tell what is going on, and faithfully translates the driver’s inputs into actual on the road behavior. When this two way flow is palpable, you have a driver’s car. The actual skid pad and acceleration numbers are irrelevant, and how well you can control the proceedings is key, especially on the limit.

I have a nice E46 330ci in the garage, running on good all season tires. Definitely a driver’s car even though it cannot even begin to touch the performance envelope of my M3.

Cannot comment on the M440i since I haven’t driven it.

Absolutely. I don't know who started this skipad means driver's enjoyment madness.

[Fullthrottlebg]

Originally Posted by cfm56d7b

Great video - well done.

M440i is here. I think the car's engineering accomplishments speak for themselves.

The visual design - as with any other radical departure - will be validated more so by sales numbers and less so by rhetoric.

Thank you! Glad that you enjoyed it.

Absolutely agree - performance and engineering wise the car is next level compared to the previous model and that's coming from an F36 owner.

While looks are subjective, I think the 4 series has always been the BOLD model BMW's lineup and they have the 3 series for those, for who the 4 is ''too much''

[R0ut3r]

Originally Posted by Fullthrottlebg

Thank you very much! Glad that you enjoyed it.

And yup, it's a shame everyone only talks about the looks of the car, while completely ignoring that the new 4 series might be one of the best driver cars made in years. Superb comfort and refinement and yet a brutal engine and tons of power.

Hopefully as some time passes, people will get used to the looks and will start to acknowledge the other aspects of the car.

The AWD M4 will def do 3.5 from 0-62. Maybe even faster.

Are you saying it will perform a little less than an X4MC?

If the new M4C Xdrive can't do less than 3.2 it would quite a disappointment.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by adc

A car is usually labeled as a driver’s car when it provides the necessary feedback to the driver so you can tell what is going on, and faithfully translates the driver’s inputs into actual on the road behavior. When this two way flow is palpable, you have a driver’s car. The actual skid pad and acceleration numbers are irrelevant, and how well you can control the proceedings is key, especially on the limit.

Exactly, that's why cars such as the Miata are considered "drivers cars." They are slow in a straight line and do not offer super high grip, but offer actual road feel and a connection that you can sense through the steering wheel.

OP: Have you driven any of the competitors? I've driven an S5 and a C43 and thought that in a straight line, they were plenty fast, but pretty vague when it came to what was happening on the road. The m340 I drove at a BMW event was pretty good in the corners and had some punch moving forward.

[NYAWE60]

The look has grown on me, which I hate. I like being knocked off my feet by a beautiful design the first time I see it. This car will sell, as all 3/4 series do and it appeals to a new generation that doesn't have a clue what an E36/E46 (or even an E90) feels like. Without having anything to compare it to, they'll just see it as a fast great car.

If you are after driving dynamics however and consider yourself a purist, you're shopping with the wrong (German) brand. The alternative isn't MB or Audi either. A little brand out of Stuttgart has figured out this philosophy and is sticking to it. Don't be afraid to buy a 1-2 year old car, they are simply sublime.

[oz555]

Originally Posted by kyleb350

I'm generally a coupe guy, but I'd get the 340i without hesitation due to that grill.

And the back is even worse