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      08-13-2020, 06:12 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustraliaG20 View Post
The HiFi speakers are pretty horrible. There is a noticeable design and material quality improvement in the Bavsound speakers. I'm glad they're all replaced and is hopefully noticeable with the new amp.
Anyways, Bimmertech speakers are on their way and are currently in Singapore.

4 x door mid ranges and 2 tweeters.
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      08-13-2020, 08:32 PM   #24
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Excellent good stuff
Soon you will be in audio nirvana
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      08-18-2020, 06:14 PM   #25
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Focal Sound Investigation

So in my search for the "Ultimate Sound" , seems a bit difficult

I started researching the Focal range.

So the following speaker are off the list.

1. Focal Utopia :- (3.5 inch midrange - frequency range not wide
enough)
2. Focal ES100K :- (The yellow ones) (mount not the same - 4 screw
instead of 3 , so unless you do something custom its not a drop in
replacement)

So that leaves us with the Focal Inside series which Focal makes specifically as a drop in replacement for BMW

As the prices mirror that of the ES100K which is 2nd top of the line and when I spoke to the Focal dealer , he said that in a blind test at a dealer demo the speakers sound like the Utopia and he should know.
I would be happy to put these in my car.

I compiled a quick price list off the Focal web site to see what the total cost would be .

There is a Focal amp that can replace the HK amp , but the dealer just got the wiring harnesses so they should be out very soon.

My understanding is that it is a drop in replacement with no cutting etc.

So thats great news as the only other option it seems to replace the HK amp is the Fischer Audiotec 12 channel Helix amp which is like $3K and in my investigation it seems like not many installers have installed it and know how to tune it, seems very complex.
And I don't think I need an extra 3 channels so a bit of a waste.


So my only concerns are that the centre mid and tweeter and the rear parcel shelf mid and tweeter are replaced by coax speakers which is not ideal , but then the centre is only a fill and I will not hear the rear speakers so willing to compromise.

Here is a rundown of the estimated cost.


Focal pricing - Replacement for Harmon Kardon 16 Premium Speaker System(S688A)
————————————————————————————————————

Rear shelf (Co-Ax instead of separate woofer/tweeter)
IC BMW 100
$419

Front doors(Midrange and tweeter)
IS BMW 100L
$639

Rear doors(Midrange and tweeter)
IS BMW 100L
$639

Centre (Co-Ax instead of separate woofer/tweeter)
ICC BMW 100
$289

Under seat
I SUB BMW 4
$489 each
2 x = $978

——————
$2964
——————-

If only front and under seat

———-
$2036
————

If only front only

—————
$1058
——————


FIT 9.660 (9 Channel DSP amp) (Cannot tune only car specific tune loaded) (Approx price )(Have not factored in wiring harness)

$1200

————
$4164
————

Plus install $1000 approx

———-
$5164
———-
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      08-22-2020, 02:56 AM   #26
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OK! I did the front doors today. Bit of a job. Fiddly. YOU WILL BREAK CLIPS on your first door, but it' s OK. Much learning to be had. Recommend having a friend help you out.

As you can see the mid range speakers are puny (not that this is the sole indicator of quality) and are very light. I feel like BMW told their designs to make this as light as possible.

Sound is better but not amazingly better (15 to 20 percent improvement). I can hear the separation a bit better. The harsh 's' from the tweeters are gone. It does not completely fall apart at higher volumes.

Tips/issues

- The clip covering the screws (x2) in the door are in quite tight. My Bavsound plastic pry tool did not do the job. I took a butter knife and taped it in felt tape. Worked perfectly.
- The install was hard work. Do not rush. It felt like a complex ikea assembly but instead of it being a $400 bed frame at risk its your nice new car.
- Do all of this with the windows down.
- Getting the door off is easy.
- Installing the midranges is easy.
- Installing the tweeters is a bit tricky. Getting the tweeter out requires a bit of poking around and prying. Not easy but the new tweeter goes in perfectly. When you reinstall the tweeter sail make sure its exactly the same as the one on the other side with the rubber trim UNDER the sail at the window. the tweeter sail will go back without the rubber in properly, but it should look exactly like the side you have not touched.
- On the right hand door the electronic connector is different and bigger than the one on the left side door. I could not get the right side connector undone. The left hand door connector is easy to unplug. On the right side I installed the speakers with the wire still attached to the door with the door resting on the mat.
- Those fkn 'popping' door clips. When you remove the door the clips should be in the 'thin' or 'install' configuration ready to go back into the holes. If you watch the relevant install videos on youtube you will see I mean. On the first door 3 of them did not go into that configuration and were broken. They must be in the 'install configuration' before you put the door back in. If they are not when you force the door back in they will break. I broke 3 on the first door removing the door and another 2 putting it back. Reasons below. I thought I was in serious trouble.
- There is a small channel at top of the door that a thin part of plastic at the top of the door hangs off. The thin plastic MUST BE IN THE CHANNEL. I managed to re install the door without doing this and it meant some of the clips were not perfectly aligned when they were pushed in. This resulted in the clips breaking. For the second door I did not break any clips because I made sure to hand the door in the door hanging channel.
- The good news that is that the door will go back fine with missing clips and 2 screws in the door. I might order some clips later. But right now the door is nice and tight. To rattles. No way to tell its missing some clips.
Attached Images
         

Last edited by erawamai; 08-22-2020 at 04:02 PM..
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      08-22-2020, 09:47 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erawamai View Post
OK! I did the front doors today. Bit of a job. Fiddly. YOU WILL BREAK CLIPS on your first door, but it' s OK. Much learning to be had. Recommend having a friend help you out.

As you can see the mid range speakers are puny (not this is excellent indicator of quality) and are very light.

Sound is better but not amazingly better (15 to 20 percent improvement). I can hear the separation a bit better. The harsh 's' from the tweeters are gone. It does not completely fall apart at higher volumes.

Tips/issues

- The clip covering the screws (x2) in the door are in quite tight. My Bavsound plastic pry tool did not do the job. I took a butter knife and taped it in felt tape. Worked perfectly.
- The install was hard work. Do not rush. It felt like a complex ikea assembly but instead of it being a $400 bed frame at risk its your nice new car.
- Do all of this with the windows down.
- Getting the door off is easy.
- Installing the midranges is easy.
- Installing the tweeters is a bit tricky. Getting the tweeter out requires a bit of poking around and prying. Not easy but the new tweeter goes in perfectly. When you reinstall the tweeter sale make sure its exactly the same as the one on the other side with the rubber trim UNDER the sail at the window. the tweeter sail will go back without the rubber in properly, but it should look exactly like the side you have not touched.
- On the right hand door the electronic connector is different and bigger than the one on the left side door. I could not get the right side connector undone. The left hand door connector is easy to unplug. On the right side I installed the speakers with the wire still attached to the door with the door resting on the mat.
- Those fkn 'popping' door clips. When you remove the door the clips should be in the 'thin' or 'install' configuration ready to go back into the holes. If you watch the relevant install videos on youtube you will see I mean. On the first door 3 of them did not go into that configuration and were broken. They must be in the 'install configuration' before you put the door back in. If they are not when you force the door back in they will break. I broke 3 on the first door removing the door and another 2 putting it back. Reasons below. I thought I was in serious trouble.
- There is a small channel at top of the door that a thin part of plastic at the top of the door hangs off. The thin plastic MUST BE IN THE CHANNEL. I managed to re install the door without doing this and it meant some of the clips were not perfectly aligned when they were pushed in. This resulted in the clips breaking. For the second door I did not break any clips because I made sure to hand the door in the door hanging channel.
- The good news that is that the door will go back fine with missing clips and 2 screws in the door. I might order some clips later. But right now the door is nice and tight. To rattles. No way to tell its missing some clips.
Wow , Great Job Erawamai, you are a very brave man

Some excellent tips, I was thinking the clips may be one of the main areas of concern.

Glad the tweeters have improved, I also have a bit of harshness on the HK system.

So next under seat speaker replacement ? ...have to get that heat gun out
It's quite funny not sure if the standard under seat speakers do much, I have not heard them at all or felt them

Thanks for the tips and great pix
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      08-23-2020, 07:12 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firetitanx View Post
Wow , Great Job Erawamai, you are a very brave man

Some excellent tips, I was thinking the clips may be one of the main areas of concern.

Glad the tweeters have improved, I also have a bit of harshness on the HK system.

So next under seat speaker replacement ? ...have to get that heat gun out
It's quite funny not sure if the standard under seat speakers do much, I have not heard them at all or felt them

Thanks for the tips and great pix
I'm not game enough to unbolt the seats!

I think the most obvious improvement are the tweeters. The harshness at the top end is gone and the detail comes through clearer. I can hear stuff I was not hearing before. Excellent for higher quality sources. More enjoyable. The stock tweeters honestly look a bit sad. It's almost like they were not there before.

The mid range is improved. Clearer, more defined and punchier but the difference it not HUGE.

The low end is the same. I find it a bit muddy but I'm not really a bass head. I just want it clear and crisp.

Last edited by erawamai; 08-23-2020 at 07:18 PM..
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      08-24-2020, 03:27 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erawamai View Post
I'm not game enough to unbolt the seats!

I think the most obvious improvement are the tweeters. The harshness at the top end is gone and the detail comes through clearer. I can hear stuff I was not hearing before. Excellent for higher quality sources. More enjoyable. The stock tweeters honestly look a bit sad. It's almost like they were not there before.

The mid range is improved. Clearer, more defined and punchier but the difference it not HUGE.

The low end is the same. I find it a bit muddy but I'm not really a bass head. I just want it clear and crisp.
Hhahaha... yes I have reservations about that ,don't want your seat coming off in an accident

Great to hear that harshness has gone from the tweeters , that's what I am looking for
Just a quick question, when you put the volume at high levels are all the frequencies still defined and separate and distinct, or is there distortion and the sound degrades.
Yup for the bass I think that will improve once you replace the amp and that will give you more power and control over the speaker cone.
I am finding the bass lacks the tightness and punch it should have.
for the update.


Just a quick update on the amplifier front , the focal dealer said that he just found out from France that the focal amp I had in mind for the HK system is not compatible with my head unit , so no solution as yet , he did refer me to an installer who has done HK setups in our model though so I will call them very soon
So just wondering I'm assuming the head unit is different in HK to HiFi system not sure so also wondering if this also impacts sound quality I thought just the number of speakers and amp was different , from a speaker perspective when I talked to Southern BMW when investigating Bavsound he said that when he compared the two speakers from HK and Hifi they were pretty much the same in terms of quality

If I knew the sound would be that ordinary I should of ordered the standard Hi Fi system at least there are options for amp upgrades and then upgraded

Oh well live and learn
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      08-30-2020, 10:23 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firetitanx View Post
Wow , Great Job Erawamai, you are a very brave man

Some excellent tips, I was thinking the clips may be one of the main areas of concern.

:
Anyways, replacement door clips have arrived from ECS Tuning in Ohio.

I'd recommended ECS. Genuine part. Arrived 1 week after ordering.
Attached Images
 
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      08-30-2020, 11:08 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustraliaG20 View Post
I've bitten the bullet and getting the Match UP7DSP professionally installed and tuned on Tuesday. Hopefully with the full Bavsound setup, it'll be light years better than the HiFi. Hoping it'll be even better than the HK in the X5 (albeit with less speakers).
Hi AustraliaG20

How is your new amp and most importantly how does it sound

Night and day ?
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      08-30-2020, 11:10 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erawamai View Post
Anyways, replacement door clips have arrived from ECS Tuning in Ohio.

I'd recommended ECS. Genuine part. Arrived 1 week after ordering.
Ah good stuff, I was thinking where would I get those, need them in preparation
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      08-30-2020, 11:50 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firetitanx View Post
Hi AustraliaG20

How is your new amp and most importantly how does it sound

Night and day ?
It's night and day, but unfortunately I've been away from my car for nearly 2 weeks - only had it for about 24 hours after it was done. I'll write up a full post over the weekend when I'm back. I'll also play tracks in my car and the X5 with the HK setup for comparison. But, it's a significant improvement of HiFi... however, ASD, indicators and phone calls are all much louder. ASD is laughable in sports mode so I'll likely code it off.

This installer took photos and will do a write up for his website. I'll provide a link when it's done.
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      08-31-2020, 05:07 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustraliaG20 View Post
It's night and day, but unfortunately I've been away from my car for nearly 2 weeks - only had it for about 24 hours after it was done. I'll write up a full post over the weekend when I'm back. I'll also play tracks in my car and the X5 with the HK setup for comparison. But, it's a significant improvement of HiFi... however, ASD, indicators and phone calls are all much louder. ASD is laughable in sports mode so I'll likely code it off.

This installer took photos and will do a write up for his website. I'll provide a link when it's done.
Great stuff good to hear, so now you will have a much louder,meaner sounding car
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      09-01-2020, 05:21 PM   #35
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So its been a couple of weeks and apparently speakers 'break in'.

The speakers do improve sound but its not ground breaking but it is a clear improvement.

I can listen to stuff now and 'enjoy it' and think to myself 'that sounds good' or 'tight'. It's not 'amazing' but its now what I'd call 'solid' and not 'disappointing'. The 'ssss' sound from the tweeters is gone.

For the system to be 'amazing' you would need better separation and sound stage tweaking and more power. This would probably be achieved with one of the off the shelf AMPS.

Really complex songs with a lot going on can kinda can still get a little muddled but those are hard songs (Think some Tame Impala songs and 'Sunsets' from Powderfinger).

Single instruments or voices sounds great. Clear and punchy. For example, the guitar at the beginning of Pink Floyd 'Wish you were here' sounds great. The drums at the beginning of "Japan, Man - I Like to Wait" go very well. 'Watching the Wheels Turn' also sounds good. Most modern music with high production values like Taylor Swift or Katy Perry style pop sounds really clean.
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      09-01-2020, 08:03 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erawamai View Post
So its been a couple of weeks and apparently speakers 'break in'.

The speakers do improve sound but its not ground breaking but it is a clear improvement.

I can listen to stuff now and 'enjoy it' and think to myself 'that sounds good' or 'tight'. It's not 'amazing' but its now what I'd call 'solid' and not 'disappointing'. The 'ssss' sound from the tweeters is gone.

For the system to be 'amazing' you would need better separation and sound stage tweaking and more power. This would probably be achieved with one of the off the shelf AMPS.

Really complex songs with a lot going on can kinda can still get a little muddled but those are hard songs (Think some Tame Impala songs and 'Sunsets' from Powderfinger).

Single instruments or voices sounds great. Clear and punchy. For example, the guitar at the beginning of Pink Floyd 'Wish you were here' sounds great. The drums at the beginning of "Japan, Man - I Like to Wait" go very well. 'Watching the Wheels Turn' also sounds good. Most modern music with high production values like Taylor Swift or Katy Perry style pop sounds really clean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erawamai View Post
So its been a couple of weeks and apparently speakers 'break in'.

The speakers do improve sound but its not ground breaking but it is a clear improvement.

I can listen to stuff now and 'enjoy it' and think to myself 'that sounds good' or 'tight'. It's not 'amazing' but its now what I'd call 'solid' and not 'disappointing'. The 'ssss' sound from the tweeters is gone.

For the system to be 'amazing' you would need better separation and sound stage tweaking and more power. This would probably be achieved with one of the off the shelf AMPS.

Really complex songs with a lot going on can kinda can still get a little muddled but those are hard songs (Think some Tame Impala songs and 'Sunsets' from Powderfinger).

Single instruments or voices sounds great. Clear and punchy. For example, the guitar at the beginning of Pink Floyd 'Wish you were here' sounds great. The drums at the beginning of "Japan, Man - I Like to Wait" go very well. 'Watching the Wheels Turn' also sounds good. Most modern music with high production values like Taylor Swift or Katy Perry style pop sounds really clean.
Ah great stuff Glad to hear the sound is going well , yes I always had a suspicion that the final leg (Replacing the amp )would give the sound the power it needs to sparkle, AustraliaG20 has said that when the amp is installed there is a Night and Day difference.
So just confirms for me , need to do the whole kaboodle in order to achieve the sound I would like.
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      09-02-2020, 06:51 AM   #37
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I found this website and the Spotify list to match. I'll give this a go when I'm back in the car and will compare to the X5 HK.

https://www.bmw.com/en/innovation/be...-speakers.html
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      09-02-2020, 07:06 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustraliaG20 View Post
I found this website and the Spotify list to match. I'll give this a go when I'm back in the car and will compare to the X5 HK.

https://www.bmw.com/en/innovation/be...-speakers.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustraliaG20 View Post
I found this website and the Spotify list to match. I'll give this a go when I'm back in the car and will compare to the X5 HK.

https://www.bmw.com/en/innovation/be...-speakers.html
Ah that would be great., if you can maybe play some uncompressed songs cut directly from cd onto usb stick , Spotify is only max approx 320kbps , original is over 1200kbps,it makes a massive difference to audio quality as you get more depth and detail in the music.
Now that you have a super duper system give Tidal music streaming service a go, you won't go back music quality is 1200kbps ultra high it really makes the music sparkle, there is a 30 day free trial , just download app to your phone.

https://tidal.com
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      09-02-2020, 11:54 PM   #39
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Interesting... that does make me wonder what compression is used for Bluetooth, but even playing off USB whether the RAM DAC compresses before sending to the amp negating super high quality audio file formats. Totally off track from this thread though.

I'll try and give it a go... but I'm now not back until Wednesday.
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      09-03-2020, 01:40 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firetitanx View Post
Ah that would be great., if you can maybe play some uncompressed songs cut directly from cd onto usb stick , Spotify is only max approx 320kbps , original is over 1200kbps,it makes a massive difference to audio quality as you get more depth and detail in the music.
Now that you have a super duper system give Tidal music streaming service a go, you won't go back music quality is 1200kbps ultra high it really makes the music sparkle, there is a 30 day free trial , just download app to your phone.

https://tidal.com
Tidal is excellent (if a little expensive).
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      09-06-2020, 05:24 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erawamai View Post
Anyways, replacement door clips have arrived from ECS Tuning in Ohio.

I'd recommended ECS. Genuine part. Arrived 1 week after ordering.
Installed the clips this weekend. All went smoothly. Took approx 10 minutes but I'd recommend having a friend help you with the driver's side door by holding it while you install clips (because the electronic connector will not come off). All perfectly tight now.

If you had done 2 or 3 of these you would get very efficient at it.
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      09-12-2020, 08:05 PM   #42
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Hi all,

I've been away from my car for almost a month, but I've written a quick review of the amp install.

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...3#post26676623
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      03-06-2021, 03:18 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firetitanx View Post
So in my search for the "Ultimate Sound" , seems a bit difficult

I started researching the Focal range.

So the following speaker are off the list.

1. Focal Utopia :- (3.5 inch midrange - frequency range not wide
enough)
2. Focal ES100K :- (The yellow ones) (mount not the same - 4 screw
instead of 3 , so unless you do something custom its not a drop in
replacement)

So that leaves us with the Focal Inside series which Focal makes specifically as a drop in replacement for BMW

As the prices mirror that of the ES100K which is 2nd top of the line and when I spoke to the Focal dealer , he said that in a blind test at a dealer demo the speakers sound like the Utopia and he should know.
I would be happy to put these in my car.

I compiled a quick price list off the Focal web site to see what the total cost would be .

There is a Focal amp that can replace the HK amp , but the dealer just got the wiring harnesses so they should be out very soon.

My understanding is that it is a drop in replacement with no cutting etc.

So thats great news as the only other option it seems to replace the HK amp is the Fischer Audiotec 12 channel Helix amp which is like $3K and in my investigation it seems like not many installers have installed it and know how to tune it, seems very complex.
And I don't think I need an extra 3 channels so a bit of a waste.


So my only concerns are that the centre mid and tweeter and the rear parcel shelf mid and tweeter are replaced by coax speakers which is not ideal , but then the centre is only a fill and I will not hear the rear speakers so willing to compromise.

Here is a rundown of the estimated cost.


Focal pricing - Replacement for Harmon Kardon 16 Premium Speaker System(S688A)
————————————————————————————————————

Rear shelf (Co-Ax instead of separate woofer/tweeter)
IC BMW 100
$419

Front doors(Midrange and tweeter)
IS BMW 100L
$639

Rear doors(Midrange and tweeter)
IS BMW 100L
$639

Centre (Co-Ax instead of separate woofer/tweeter)
ICC BMW 100
$289

Under seat
I SUB BMW 4
$489 each
2 x = $978

——————
$2964
——————-

If only front and under seat

———-
$2036
————

If only front only

—————
$1058
——————


FIT 9.660 (9 Channel DSP amp) (Cannot tune only car specific tune loaded) (Approx price )(Have not factored in wiring harness)

$1200

————
$4164
————

Plus install $1000 approx

———-
$5164
———-
A friend of mine installed the Focal Inside Premium 7.2 (kept the HK Surround Sound Amp/DSP). I think the system outperforms mine with the B&O. I am planning on replacing all (except the center B&O) with the focal Inside speakers. I think they are worth it based on my experience so far. The B&O Amp is 1200W and the Focal amp is 1300W, so it should be fine.
Appreciate 0
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