[somer]

Originally Posted by besfa001

He also said a gas and electric M3 would both be available…..

48v mild hybrid + S58tu2 with direct and port injection please

[m2for2]

Originally Posted by Bimmer5

When I hear people say ICE is going away or it’s inevitable it makes me cringe, we the consumers are in charge here not some group of politicians. If you refuse to buy EV’s guess what they will not make them, or at very least they will be a niche market.
If you’re a ICE enthusiast why support the EV market, the whole premise of never seeing a gas station again. Sure you may not have to go get gas but you can bet the cost will eventually be the same because the politicians will not let you get away without paying for the lost gas tax.
EV’s are a hard NO from me.

I totally agree with this.

The Democratic People's Republic of California (DPRC) already charges over $100 per YEAR extrato drive an EV when you renew your annual registration because "they aren't making revenue off of you from gas taxes".

My $50,000 Model 3 Performance was almost $800 per year for registration, every single year of the 4 years I owned it.

Absolutely insane.

[Zamorskii]

If it has a solid stare battery and 500+ mile range, I’ll look.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Oh no, its actually happening

[imperfectluck]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Because for a large majority of drives, it works, and offers a much better driving experience. And, oh yeah, is actually more efficient and also is better for air quality?

Maybe?

I'm a realist. No, it doesn't work if you live in a condo or a townhouse. So it's not ready for mass adoption. But that's the grid.

The cars are freaking good. WAY better than some 4 popper POS commuter car.

This is the issue I have, having lived in NYC all my life and seeing how EVs have been growing amongst consumers in recent years, our infra is far from having a bunch of fast charging stations around because the time today to pump gas vs using a more wide spread charging station adds up in time the more people you have as it takes longer to re charge batteries than to pump fuel.

Not even taking into account yet the strain on the power grid which will have to be accounted for, I’m intentionally leaving out us homeowners as we can charge at home but I can’t deny trying to see people charge their cars around Manhattan and Brooklyn is going to be a real test over the next five or so years.

What metric are you gauging to say these cars are way better than some POS commuter cars because I know folks still buying POS commuter cars due to its ease to just park and leave them anywhere.

[a1gio2]

Just like the enthusiast market disintegrated with the G8X platform and everyone suddenly prefers automatic transmissions, the same will happen with these battery operated video game cars. I won't buy one ever, no matter how good the new era people say it is, but that's OK.

[R0LL0T0MASI]

Going to approach this with an open mind. Maybe it will be great. I bought the G80 knowing it would voluntarily be my last gasoline car, since EV’s will have improved and I want to help the environment. Not going to overthink it.

[robopp]

Originally Posted by a1gio2

Just like the enthusiast market disintegrated with the G8X platform and everyone suddenly prefers automatic transmissions, the same will happen with these battery operated video game cars. I won't buy one ever, no matter how good the new era people say it is, but that's OK.

Porsche has committed to making ICE 911’s for as long as they possibly can. Having just taken a delivery of my 911 and still currently own two BMWs, I can say the 911 is on another level in every facet of driving.

[sward]

Yes. A 1000kw EV m3. I’ll buy it.

[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by sward

Yes. A 1000hp EV m3. I’ll buy it.

I wonder how you will add some soul to it? Do they sell that at Wal-Mart?

[xmanpro]

Can’t wait for these silent fast nimble and fun to drive BMWs to show up. After driving a Taycan ct for a while this summer, I hate to say but I’m honestly getting tired of the remarkable turbo swoosh and exhaust notes that my M cars have.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by imperfectluck

What metric are you gauging to say these cars are way better than some POS commuter cars because I know folks still buying POS commuter cars due to its ease to just park and leave them anywhere.

Driving experience
Ease of ownership / use (if you can charge, which I have covered).

If you have to solely DCFC, then an EV is not for you. But if you live at home, or can charge at work or at your Condo somehow, I'd rather have a Bolt 10/10 times than a Corolla or a Kia Rio.

And the reality is that if you have a short commute, you can probably get by with Level 1 (110 plug) charging during the week and DCFC 1-2 times on the weekend and be good. I'd rather do that.....

...once the CCS DCFC infrastructure gets better

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by m2for2

I totally agree with this.

The Democratic People's Republic of California (DPRC) already charges over $100 per YEAR extrato drive an EV when you renew your annual registration because "they aren't making revenue off of you from gas taxes".

My $50,000 Model 3 Performance was almost $800 per year for registration, every single year of the 4 years I owned it.

Absolutely insane.

Yes, how dare they charge you $100 a year extra on a car that generates no gas tax, and also gave you a $2,000 state tax credit on purchase and also possibly a $7,500 federal tax credit on purchase.

Insane indeed.

[akkando]

Originally Posted by harperium

there will have to be an S58 M3 for the North American market, otherwise sales would approach zero here.

As long as it's new people will buy it here. Most buyers only care about the badge, a new lease, and that it makes the old car look dated. It wouldn't even matter if it was self drive only and the seats faced backwards. People would say "This makes the old one look dated, and if you're complaining you're just jealous you can't afford it bro".

[MadBimmeRad]

One of the biggest problems about EVs which nobody is talking about is the chronic shortage of "appropriately trained, suitably qualified and experienced" technicians for these rather temperamental fiery bundles of joy.

When they're ok, they're ok, when they're not, the cost of repairs is astronomical.

It takes milliseconds to roast an under-trained rookie techie with 800V of pure zapping flavour.

Good luck (more like RIP) BMW - I'm glad I got the M2 CS and the M4 CSL

[Tenac]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

I mean, it’s not hard to see how this will all play out. We are in the middle of the first wave of EV push. In some areas of the world, it will stick. Most not. There will be pushback, compromise. Deadlines will get rescinded, political promises broken. People who want EV’s (yes, there are, I would gladly take an EV Cayenne if the charging network were equal to Tesla) will continue to adopt, it will get better. Cheaper. There will be another push. The grid will improve. We will burn less fossils and more renewables. Nuclear will make a comeback. More EV adoption will occur. We will start to really build the network. And so on.

I just roll my eyes when people on both sides of the coin make grand, bold, confident and all knowing statements, as if they can predict the future better than anyone. Right now our country is so divided politically we can’t even decide what freaking books belong in school libraries. Do you really think someone will let their ICE vehicles be snatched up in 7 years? Lol, HARDLY.

Yet the automakers see the path forward. 99% of the people buying cars DGAF. If they can charge it they will buy it. Long term EV’s will cost less to build and sell, and the automakers will make more money. They can see that. But we’re not there. Yet

Some really good points, we also need to keep eye on the data. Right now most first time EV buyers are only 18% return buyers to EV. Heck Ford has a 60-70% just due to brand. Tesla sits at 46% roughly. Keep in mind these are numbers brought to us by varies automotive companies but gives some insight currently on growth and decline. Disclaimer those numbers came from early summer.

I don't see one "replacing" the other fully but it will be interesting if we want to also include "Green Fuel from Porsche" and Toyota's advanced hybrid system coming in next few years. Just a really interesting time to be a car enthusiast.

[brava09]

Originally Posted by Straight6Dave

We the consumers are in charge, you the individual consumer are not. For a lot of people EV is going to be a much better experience once the charging network gets there. I like gas vehicles better too but at some point that ship is going to sail. The number of people that actually buy cars and give a damn about how power gets to the wheels is vanishingly small.

Gas tax will absolutely be replaced by something because someone has to pay for the roads whereas gas usage was a good proxy for road use, we’re gonna need something else.

I don’t care how the power gets to the wheels, but I want 3 minutes refill when and where I need to refill. Until then the EV is a niche market

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by harperium

Saw this:

https://7news.com.au/motoring/next-b...mer-c-11885219

“The Neue Klasse [platform] will be a lot of [halos] because it has so much newness in it, combined in a way that we never did before – from technical capabilities to design language… I call it ‘all, all-new’.”

“This will be the best year for [BMW] M, ever. What is M for BMW? M is our ability to take something that is already quite good as a product, and make it even better,” Mr Weber continued.

“What is clear with Neue Klasse, the thing of enhancing or having a lighthouse project that stands for the new capabilities of a new generation is really crucial.”

“Therefore, the next M3 will be battery electric, fully battery electric. And, the Heart of Joy (the all-new Neue Klasse control unit) was designed for four independently operating electric machines up to 1 megawatt (1MW/1000kW).”

“We want to come with something where we show Neue Klasse is already very ambitious, but this is far above what people are used to today. This will come with [the] M3 and will not be too far away from the initial launch of Neue Klasse as a product line.”

This needs to be updated... This is still the status quo of bmw giving people the power of choice and meeting certain market demands.

Within the article it's states


Mr Weber also hinted that both the petrol-fired M3 and an all-electric alternative could co-exist in the brand’s portfolio, given the current model’s ‘S58’ 3.0-litre twin-turbocharged inline six has only been around since the X3 M and X4 M launched in 2019.



With that it's highly likely they will have a EV M3 and a ICE M3 thus filling the needs of different markets.

So to say the next gen M3 will be EV only at this point isn't a fully true statement.

https://7news.com.au/motoring/next-b...mer-c-11885219

[BimmerMat135]

I am totally against a M3 pure EV but yes in the end the legislators will win. I think a lot of folks see this is with a US biais vision. There are many countries in which the push for EV is Well ahead. Let’s think about China for example and this is a growing market.

In here many EV have 2 years + waiting list since we have very cheap electricity and highly taxed fuel.

I think we should leave sport cars out of the EV formula there is a purity and an involvement that only ICE can replicate.

I still wonder why the push toward ev is not focus in area where the gain would be much greater: Trains, commercial trucks, pick up, offroaders things that use alot of fuel not replacing a diesel car that can do 4L/100kms for a Tesla.

[kgelfen360]

Originally Posted by brava09

I don’t care how the power gets to the wheels, but I want 3 minutes refill when and where I need to refill. Until then the EV is a niche market

It’s not really niche man. Do u drive 300 miles every single day? Most people don’t. I don’t have an EV yet but the fact that u plug in at home and it’s ready to go everyday is pretty nice. Is it for everyone. Not yet. But it will be….

[guy_incognito1420]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Time for a 911

Make the plunge we all strive to make.

BMW is but a gateway drug for Porsche.

[Straight6Dave]

Originally Posted by Tenac

Some really good points, we also need to keep eye on the data. Right now most first time EV buyers are only 18% return buyers to EV. Heck Ford has a 60-70% just due to brand. Tesla sits at 46% roughly. Keep in mind these are numbers brought to us by varies automotive companies but gives some insight currently on growth and decline. Disclaimer those numbers came from early summer.

I don't see one "replacing" the other fully but it will be interesting if we want to also include "Green Fuel from Porsche" and Toyota's advanced hybrid system coming in next few years. Just a really interesting time to be a car enthusiast.

I think you're right, personally right now I think hybrids are the best compromise for most people and get a lot more miles being driven electrically which is objectively good for everyone unless you really like breathing in exhaust fumes from other drivers.

But solid state batteries are literally the game changer here. If they end up working out (and that's still an if) they're going to be a MASSIVE improvement over existing technology in terms of weight, safety, charge speed and packaging improvements.

Technology marches on whether we like it or not.