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      02-10-2019, 08:06 PM   #133
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Man I like to disagree. You are not looking at all variables against the price hike. You are more than welcome to pay 56k for a base 3er. With prices so high, high interest rates, and minimal wage growth, I don't see these to sell well.
Prices are increasing in all segments. Let's look at the Mazda3 sedan:

2014: Lowest trim MSRP $16,945

2019: Lowest trim MSRP $21,895 (redesign)

That's a 29.2% increase in price!

If you want a cheaper 3-er in the US, it's not the 3-series anymore, there's always the 2-series.
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      02-10-2019, 10:07 PM   #134
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lol 56k 330i
Agreed, I turned in my 2015 328xi in October and am jumping to another brand for the first time since 1994. Maybe I'll be back but for the next 3 years I'm going to give the G70 a shot. It seems to have a good mix of the things that made the 3 series great in the past and I'm getting a loaded twin turbo 6 awd for $48k. If I get a turbo 6 and similar options on the 3 I'm looking at $62-65k. I really want a 6 cylinder again but just have a hard time with paying that much. I also like the way the G70 looks, not a fan of the new 3 in std or msport.
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      02-10-2019, 10:25 PM   #135
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Man I like to disagree. You are not looking at all variables against the price hike. You are more than welcome to pay 56k for a base 3er. With prices so high, high interest rates, and minimal wage growth, I don't see these to sell well.
Prices are increasing in all segments. Let's look at the Mazda3 sedan:

2014: Lowest trim MSRP $16,945

2019: Lowest trim MSRP $21,895 (redesign)

That's a 29.2% increase in price!

If you want a cheaper 3-er in the US, it's not the 3-series anymore, there's always the 2-series.
Mazda 3 is like milk, or close to it. People will buy it as necessity, 56k 3 series is a premium car.
And we don't want 2 series. I want 3er or I go elsewhere and this is what most pple will do. I expect BMW to loose sales or be offering big discounts. Let's check back in 6-8 months?
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      02-10-2019, 10:28 PM   #136
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Man I like to disagree. You are not looking at all variables against the price hike. You are more than welcome to pay 56k for a base 3er. With prices so high, high interest rates, and minimal wage growth, I don't see these to sell well.
You're welcome and free to disagree.

But taking into account inflation is not a matter of opinion, especially when we're talking about a period longer than a decade.
And a base 3er is not 56k in the US.
Wasn't there a sticker posted from a car just delivered to US? it was at 56k MSRP (including options).
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      02-11-2019, 01:19 AM   #137
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56k for a 330 4 cylinder!! Holy shit that is absolutely ridiculous. I can't believe people still buy/lease new BMW's, I will never again (after 19 years now). Damn shame
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      02-11-2019, 01:21 AM   #138
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lol 56k 330i
Agreed, I turned in my 2015 328xi in October and am jumping to another brand for the first time since 1994. Maybe I'll be back but for the next 3 years I'm going to give the G70 a shot. It seems to have a good mix of the things that made the 3 series great in the past and I'm getting a loaded twin turbo 6 awd for $48k. If I get a turbo 6 and similar options on the 3 I'm looking at $62-65k. I really want a 6 cylinder again but just have a hard time with paying that much. I also like the way the G70 looks, not a fan of the new 3 in std or msport.
Agree, also looking elsewhere but none of these shit car companies are getting money from me for these new models. CPO all day, used without if not
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      02-11-2019, 01:26 AM   #139
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lol 56k 330i
I'll take a G30 5er for that instead. Thank you
blows my mind why anyone would buy these cars new... 1 year later; they are 10k off
Because used cars suck. They are typically beat up demo vehicles, been in an accident, have botched up paint work that doesn't show until you've been driving it for a few months, mechanical or electrical gremlins, etc. I'd rather pay $10k more and not worry about any of the problems associated with used cars. Especially used dealership trade-ins or "Certified" Pre-owned vehicles. Buying a good, honest used car from a private owner is a different story, but it takes an insane amount of effort and time to hunt down a good one. Been there, done that with new, dealer used, and private used cars. I will only buy new cars from now on unless I'm buying a classic car where I don't have the option to buy new.
Sounds like a bunch of made up excuses to me. A well researched and vetted CPO or used BMW could be a great solid purchase. On the other hand if you don't do your due diligence you can end up with someone else's problem.

Sorry to hear that you may have been badly burn in the past but you didn't perform due diligence on those used car purchases. Used is not immediately suspected of abuse or damage but at the same time you have the vehicle you are looking at.

And do you truly honestly believe that buying will shield you 100% from a vehicle that has not had repainted panels or shipping damage?
What I'm saying is for me, the effort required to find a used car that would meet my expectations is not worth saving that $10k or whatever it is. It also depends on why I'm buying the car. My Volvo was (very well) used because I didn't buy it for any other reason than to continue driving the hell out of it on a daily basis on these shitty Midwest roads. It seeps oil right now because it likely needs the PCV system serviced (it now has 137k miles), there were some initial gremlins I had to sort, etc. But I paid under $10k for it and knew what I was getting myself into. My BMW, on the other hand, is more of a trophy car and one I wouldn't dare drive around with any mechanical or cosmetic issues. So yeah, buying a used car does suck because there is no free lunch, and if you expect perfection from your BMW like I do, buying new is the only way to go. I thought it was a little short-sighted to think of buying a new car as "mind boggling" and simply felt like responding and sharing an alternative perspective I suppose to stick up for those of us that work hard enough to buy whatever the hell we want for whatever reason we want it.
Lol "my bmw is a trophy car". Referring to a 3 series!! Oh my god.....delusional as hell
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      02-11-2019, 03:08 AM   #140
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Lol "my bmw is a trophy car". Referring to a 3 series!! Oh my god.....delusional as hell
Hate much and read little? Yes, I enjoy driving and owning my 2-series (not 3-series..again, reading is fundamental) more than my outgoing Porsche 997.1 C2S. It's a bargain of a car, but still a gem in my eyes, and again, worth treating as such.
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      02-11-2019, 03:27 AM   #141
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Mazda 3 is like milk, or close to it. People will buy it as necessity, 56k 3 series is a premium car.
And we don't want 2 series. I want 3er or I go elsewhere and this is what most pple will do. I expect BMW to loose sales or be offering big discounts. Let's check back in 6-8 months?
3-series is not a premium car. It's the Honda Civic of BMWs. These cars will fly off the lots no matter what.
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      02-11-2019, 11:51 AM   #142
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The base price of this xDrive 330i is $42,250. That's almost exact the same price the A4 Quattro and the C300 4Matic are. Most importantly, I believe that's almost exactly the same price the outgoing F30 330 xi was.

This car is pretty much fully loaded. Fully loaded cars have always been a bad deal and this one is no exception. It's no more expensive than an F30 similarly equipped.

Also, while I'm partial to straight sixes, the B48 is a fine motor. It's exceptionally smooth for a 4 banger and it has plenty of power. It definitely is faster than the last N/A straight six BMW put in the 3 series. I feel like even if BMW put in a 500hp I-4 engine into the 330i, people would still be complaining that it's not a straight six and say it's overpriced.

It's fine to prefer the smoothness and sound of the N55 or B58, but it's not fair to say a car is overpriced simply because it has four cylinder instead of six without any regard to how much actual power is making. No matter how it's done, power is power. It's really not that much cheaper to use a 4 cylinder vs a 6 cylinder. Everything in the drive line has to support the power and torque of the motor like the driveshaft, diff, halfshafts, wheels, tires, brakes, etc. You also are making more power per cylinder/liter. You're just paying slightly less for a smaller block and fewer engine components. With the benefit of slightly less weight, better balance, and cheaper maintenance.
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      02-11-2019, 01:15 PM   #143
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      02-11-2019, 01:34 PM   #144
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lol 56k 330i
I'll take a G30 5er for that instead. Thank you
blows my mind why anyone would buy these cars new... 1 year later; they are 10k off
Agreed. I buy CPO, a year old or less with no more than 15K-18K miles.

The first owner takes the depreciation sucker punch...
My plan exactly lol but I feel like a used M340i will be rare to find, if not impossible

I currently drive a 2013 328i XDrive and I'm torn between getting a brand new 2020 M340i, or going for a used 2016 340i or a 2016 M3 to not take that M340i depreciation. I have $10k to put down if I finance and trade in my 328i on top. Don't want to do more than 36 months. If I go for M340i I'll have to do 60 months.
Be patient and wait. The right M340i will turn up before the year is over.

It is amazing how many people repent or tire of their brand new (Even custom built ordered) BMWs just to trade them in 6-9 months down the line and take a massive bath in cold water depreciation. I guess for some folks their financial stability and well being takes a back seat in the name of the greatest and latest and been seen behind the wheel of the proverbial holy grail.

But thanks to these folks, we 'smarter' buyers can pick them up CPO for very reasonable money. Most of these cars still look and smell brand new, with full warranties in effect.
There are an equal amount of people out there that like the feeling of a brand new car that nobody else has sat there big ass in and farted into the seat cushions. They drive them proudly for 5, 7, even 10 years. Then buy another new one. I've always been one of those buyers.
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      02-11-2019, 01:41 PM   #145
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3-series is not a premium car. It's the Honda Civic of BMWs. These cars will fly off the lots no matter what.
Just because there are a lot more expensive cars than the 3 series, doesn't mean it's not a premium car. It's what else you can buy for less money that makes the 3 series a premium car. I'm speaking for the U.S. market, BTW, where the 3 series comes standard with a lot more features than in Europe.

How can someone lose perspective so easily? You don't think the 3 series is premium compared to the biggest sellers like the Honda Accord or Civic? It's one thing to pay for utility or size for a big truck or SUV, but it's entirely another when you are paying $20-$30k more for a 3 series simply for driver feel and creature comforts.
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      02-11-2019, 01:49 PM   #146
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Just because there are a lot more expensive cars than the 3 series, doesn't mean it's not a premium car. It's what else you can buy for less money that makes the 3 series a premium car. I'm speaking for the U.S. market, BTW, where the 3 series comes standard with a lot more features than in Europe.

How can someone lose perspective so easily? You don't think the 3 series is premium compared to the biggest sellers like the Honda Accord or Civic? It's one thing to pay for utility or size for a big truck or SUV, but it's entirely another when you are paying $20-$30k more for a 3 series simply for driver feel and creature comforts.
I meant it's not a premium car in the BMW line-up, it's almost the entry level vehicle in the US BMW brand like how a Civic is in Honda's lineup.

For example, the 3-series leather seats feel like a football. It's the high volume seller that everyone buys the most.

Only us enthusiasts care about or even notice the minor design tweaks and changes in steering. To most people it's just a cheap BMW to lease.

Last edited by praxis218; 02-11-2019 at 01:59 PM.
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      02-11-2019, 01:50 PM   #147
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The base price of this xDrive 330i is $42,250. That's almost exact the same price the A4 Quattro and the C300 4Matic are. Most importantly, I believe that's almost exactly the same price the outgoing F30 330 xi was.

This car is pretty much fully loaded. Fully loaded cars have always been a bad deal and this one is no exception. It's no more expensive than an F30 similarly equipped.

Also, while I'm partial to straight sixes, the B48 is a fine motor. It's exceptionally smooth for a 4 banger and it has plenty of power. It definitely is faster than the last N/A straight six BMW put in the 3 series. I feel like even if BMW put in a 500hp I-4 engine into the 330i, people would still be complaining that it's not a straight six and say it's overpriced.

It's fine to prefer the smoothness and sound of the N55 or B58, but it's not fair to say a car is overpriced simply because it has four cylinder instead of six without any regard to how much actual power is making. No matter how it's done, power is power. It's really not that much cheaper to use a 4 cylinder vs a 6 cylinder. Everything in the drive line has to support the power and torque of the motor like the driveshaft, diff, halfshafts, wheels, tires, brakes, etc. You also are making more power per cylinder/liter. You're just paying slightly less for a smaller block and fewer engine components. With the benefit of slightly less weight, better balance, and cheaper maintenance.
Amen brother!
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      02-11-2019, 02:06 PM   #148
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Lol "my bmw is a trophy car". Referring to a 3 series!! Oh my god.....delusional as hell
Grow up. Someone could just as easily say the same thing about a brand new Civic Si or a 911 Carrera S.
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      02-11-2019, 03:23 PM   #149
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Man I like to disagree. You are not looking at all variables against the price hike. You are more than welcome to pay 56k for a base 3er. With prices so high, high interest rates, and minimal wage growth, I don't see these to sell well.
You're welcome and free to disagree.

But taking into account inflation is not a matter of opinion, especially when we're talking about a period longer than a decade.
And a base 3er is not 56k in the US.
Wasn't there a sticker posted from a car just delivered to US? it was at 56k MSRP (including options).
So case in point? Including options, therefore not a base 3er (rather closer to fully loaded). I really don't get what you're trying to say here.
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      02-11-2019, 04:30 PM   #150
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The upcoming G80/82/83 will be priced higher, thus why a pure model might be offered for the G80 6MT strippers that are price sensitive.
The pure won't be about price for people that want one, it's about a more raw traditional M car experience, rather than a techno-fest gadget laden 4wd machine.
It's still more attainable...but at least you'll be able to say that you're a "true enthusiast" 😂😂

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      02-11-2019, 04:34 PM   #151
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I think a huge part of pricing is how BMW is now doing packages. Do you want HK audio? You need premium ($2800) + Nav ($1600) + HK ($875). That's over $5k for stuff you may not necessarily want.

Do you want the cool laser lights? You have to add executive ($2100), which needs to add 2 other packages or something like that.

To me the car is only more expensive because we can no longer do a la carte options like we used to.

Whether that is worth it seems like a personal preference, but it at least makes me stop and think what else is out there. I could wait a year and do CPO for a bigger discount.

FWIW, a G30 5 series can be had in the $30s now
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      02-11-2019, 05:24 PM   #152
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Man I like to disagree. You are not looking at all variables against the price hike. You are more than welcome to pay 56k for a base 3er. With prices so high, high interest rates, and minimal wage growth, I don't see these to sell well.
You're welcome and free to disagree.

But taking into account inflation is not a matter of opinion, especially when we're talking about a period longer than a decade.
And a base 3er is not 56k in the US.
Wasn't there a sticker posted from a car just delivered to US? it was at 56k MSRP (including options).
So case in point? Including options, therefore not a base 3er (rather closer to fully loaded). I really don't get what you're trying to say here.
Base engine 3er with couple of options is 56k in 2019 vs 2006 base 3er with the same couple of options was then at 34k. Price increase is very noticeable if you think about it. Also, bmw has been raising prices every year, so even in 2012 e90 base with couple of options was probably close to or over 40k.

But if you are in the camp of "charge me if you can" as long as you can give me some ideas to justify the raise, then sure - you win your argument.
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      02-11-2019, 05:25 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by georgere View Post
Mazda 3 is like milk, or close to it. People will buy it as necessity, 56k 3 series is a premium car.
And we don't want 2 series. I want 3er or I go elsewhere and this is what most pple will do. I expect BMW to loose sales or be offering big discounts. Let's check back in 6-8 months?
3-series is not a premium car. It's the Honda Civic of BMWs. These cars will fly off the lots no matter what.
Let's see comes September?
And BMW positions itself as a premium/lux brand and all of their cars are such. Of course anything below 5 series is entry level premium car but it is not civic for sure.
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      02-11-2019, 06:02 PM   #154
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Base engine 3er with couple of options is 56k in 2019 vs 2006 base 3er with the same couple of options was then at 34k. Price increase is very noticeable if you think about it. Also, bmw has been raising prices every year, so even in 2012 e90 base with couple of options was probably close to or over 40k.

But if you are in the camp of "charge me if you can" as long as you can give me some ideas to justify the raise, then sure - you win your argument.
I've already said what I wanted to about comparing the two cars directly: you can't because you have options available on one that weren't there for the other. Plus the underlying structure of the car is also far from the same, and even the options they "share" aren't at the same level.

I think we've also covered enough times now that the 34k you keep bringing up was 13 years ago, and would be equivalent to 42-43k today. That's already the base price of the new car, which may just have a lot of things standard that you had to option 13 years ago on a 3er and even more features probably (not just tech, but engineering wise).

So, of course BMW is making money (like every other brand), and of course prices have gone up (like every other product), but not on this exceptional scale you keep pointing to in this case.
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