[LarryMarcia]

I just posted this in a thread elsewhere. Making a new thread as it seems like an often discussed topic.

PS,, I know a lot of car audio is made by the same company, still, that does not mean they sound the same. I find it ridiculous that BMW can offer the truly fantastic Bowers and Wilkins upgrade for around 1K in the 5 series, but only offer an utterly poor sounding Harmon for the same money in the 3 series.

If you own your vehicle, not leased, then there is a way to get truly amazing sound in your 3 series if you want to spend approx 3k.

It came down to these 3 options for me:

1). Alpha One from Bimmer Tech. Approx $2500 for everything, speakers, Amp... but some model 3 series that were factory equipped with the HK can make some of the Alpha One components a bit tricky to install. When I originally called Alpha One they said put in my VIN at their website and it would show what components will be compatible with my 3 series. They said anyone that calls them that is building (factory ordering) a car from scratch should not opt for the HK as it adds a bit of difficulty in upgrading with their parts.

2). Morel Supremo - approx $5K. If you have extra funds on hand, then go with that, it's probably one of the best sounding car audios I ever heard, at least from what I listened to in the car audio dealer near me.

3) Focal - cost me around 3K installed. It's made in France. This is what I got, and compared to the Harmon that came with our car, the difference is unbelievable. I've listened to BMW's Bowers and Wilkins in their 5 series, I've listened to Audi's Bang and Olufson, I've listened to Lexus' Levinsion and so many other very good car audio systems, and this is at least as good as those, and maybe even better.

No one likes pulling out a stereo from a new car and seeing your new door panels and dash being removed, but I have -0- regrets. The Harmon that came with the car is utterly and downright weak and poor sounding, and in truth, I should have saved around $900 and just got the vehicle with the standard HiFi. BMW may call the Harmon an upgrade, but to me, it seemed like a waste of money.

The 6 hours my car spent in the shop was definitely worth it. Having a great stereo in your vehicle is something that vastly improves the motoring experience. If BMW offered their Bowers audio, which I think is only about a 1K upgrade in their 5 series, I never would have needed to go after market. I really did not want to spend a lot of money on a new car stereo, but the Harmon was just utterly bad sounding.

Final note, I don't think the stereo replacement will void any warranty coverage, but I really don't care. I was not going to live with a 55K car that had that kind of poor sounding stereo. BMW should change from Harmon to Bowers / Wilkins or Bang / Olufson and give the people a real upgrade for their money.

If you are in the Chicago area, I can give you the shop I went to for my installation.

[Gladius Nova]

Originally Posted by LarryMarcia

I just posted this in a thread elsewhere. Making a new thread as it seems like an often discussed topic.

PS,, I know a lot of car audio is made by the same company, still, that does not mean they sound the same. I find it ridiculous that BMW can offer the truly fantastic Bowers and Wilkins upgrade for around 1K in the 5 series, but only offer an utterly poor sounding Harmon for the same money in the 3 series.

If you own your vehicle, not leased, then there is a way to get truly amazing sound in your 3 series if you want to spend approx 3k.

It came down to these 3 options for me:

1). Alpha One from Bimmer Tech. Approx $2500 for everything, speakers, Amp... but some model 3 series that were factory equipped with the HK can make some of the Alpha One components a bit tricky to install. When I originally called Alpha One they said put in my VIN at their website and it would show what components will be compatible with my 3 series. They said anyone that calls them that is building (factory ordering) a car from scratch should not opt for the HK as it adds a bit of difficulty in upgrading with their parts.

2). Morel Supremo - approx $5K. If you have extra funds on hand, then go with that, it's probably one of the best sounding car audios I ever heard, at least from what I listened to in the car audio dealer near me.

3) Focal - cost me around 3K installed. It's made in France. This is what I got, and compared to the Harmon that came with our car, the difference is unbelievable. I've listened to BMW's Bowers and Wilkins in their 5 series, I've [...]

Decided to make an entire thread about it huh? Ok we get it….you don’t like the HK system.

[madpistol]

What don't you like about the HK system?

[zazzau]

Not another HK thread. If OP has posted this somewhere why the repost? I don’t understand the point of this post either - the topic itself is misleading. Nothing new about this post tbh — all of these options have been discussed in the HK thread.

[LarryMarcia]

Personally, I just do not like the sound, power, esp. bass of the Harmon. The best way to understand it is this, go by your local BMW dealership, sit in a 5 series or other series with the Bowers and Wilkins stereo, and listen for just a minute or two. It won't be easy to get back in the 3 series and listen to the Harmon. I find the difference to be that significant. If you don't care about music quality, then any sound system will be acceptable for you.

[madpistol]

Originally Posted by LarryMarcia

Personally, I just do not like the sound, power, esp. bass of the Harmon. The best way to understand it is this, go by your local BMW dealership, sit in a 5 series or other series with the Bowers and Wilkins stereo, and listen for just a minute or two. It won't be easy to get back in the 3 series and listen to the Harmon. I find the difference to be that significant. If you don't care about music quality, then any sound system will be acceptable for you.

So, first of all, I do care about sound and music quality. I got to test drive an i4 M50 at a BMW Town Tour event, and it sounded great. The biggest difference was bass, and that's because the i4 w/ HK has a dedicated sub in the trunk.

However, I tend to skew more towards neutral than bass heavy sound, so it isn't a big deal to me. What I did is got BimmerCode and a OBD2 bluetooth device to interface with my M440i GC. From there, I coded in the Bowers & Wilkins DSP into my HK head unit. Then I balanced it, and it now sounds amazing. Cost about $100 for the OBD2 bluetooth device and BimmerCode.

I'm sure your option sounds great, but to say that myself or anyone else here doesn't care about music or sound quality is pretty shallow IMO. No doubt your system sounds great but $2500 is a lot of money to improve sound quality in a car. Maybe choose your words a bit more wisely next time.

[LarryMarcia]

Understood. Just a bit over passionate about audio sound systems. I didn’t even know about coding to change stereo settings, but from what you say it is a low cost option for fellow 3 series owners with the Harmon to consider.

[nimonery]

Replying to this as I did a sound upgrade on my 3 series too within weeks of purchasing. I started with the standard Hifi system and if you think the HK is bad the standard Hifi is even worse…

I ended up going with the Alphaone setup from bimmertech that you mentioned. Install was pretty easy everything was plug n play. Started with just the amp which did help with the volume but decided might as well finish the set and got the rest of the speakers/subs.

HUGE improvement that’s for sure. Though it was not cheap. Whether it’s worth it depends on how much you care about sound and I would say it was worth for me.

One thing I will note since you mentioned that it would have been better to start with the Hifi system is that there are less speakers, so the system is still a bit front-heavy in the car and does not provide as much of a “surround” sound that you get with upgrading the HK. In the Hifi the only speakers behind the front seats are the 2 mid ranges in the rear doors. HK has 2 extra midranges and 4 extra tweeters in back. So an upgraded HK will still sound better, even though it’s tougher to install.

[TheMaxXHD]

New threads about the HK system are not necessary. It has been beaten to death.

Also I feel like much of the hate towards the HK system is somewhat muted. Are there better options out there, sure. But it is not crap. It does the job in most cases.

It really is an overblown problem.

With a “v shaped” equalizer setting, I really don’t notice much difference between other systems, but I also don’t crank up the volume, because I like my ears. If your noticing that big of a difference, I’d be less concerned about the sound quality, and more concerned about how loud you play music.

[ramparts]

Wait till you find out that the B&W system in the new 5 series is actually a rebadged Harman Kardon system ( with the same 464W amplifier ! )

[Paulskit]

Thanks for sharing, LarryMarcia.

Can you please provide a list of components installed?
Can't say I love H&K, got it mostly because of better interior looks. I'm curious what the cost of upgrade to Focal would be in my country. Is it plug-n-play install?

[NightOwl-M340i]

Thanks for the write up. I also dislike the HK system and would like to upgrade. Embarrassing that bmw gives you a piece of trash for your speakers when spending this kind of money. My 2010 infiniti had better speakers.

[DickieJ]

I have the HK. Bavsound’s all around. Match subs under seat. Match 10 DSP. Self install.
Under $3k. Sound is bueno.

[JABCAT]

Neither the Hi-fi or HK are great (I have both currently), but neither are that bad. I will say there isn't $900 worth of upgrade from the Hi-fi to the HK. I love music, and have a 3.5-4 hr drive each way every weekend. That said, spending $3-5k to upgrade speakers & amps is quite a bit overkill for negligible noticeable improvement.

The "drastic improvement" effect generally stems from the psychology of spending so much $ on the upgrade. As others pointed out, there are plenty of less expensive alternatives if you want to improve sound. And unless you're keeping this vehicle forever or planning to spend the $ to take it all out and put back the OEM system when you sell/trade, it's not worth the expense.

OP- could've simply posted the components he upgraded with the prices & left it at that. Instead he focused more on bashing the HK system, comparing it to other systems, but then not even describing his new system.

[LarryMarcia]

"The "drastic improvement" effect generally stems from the psychology of spending so much $ on the upgrade."

I mostly disagree with that. True -- spending on some luxury items can instill a sense of quality. False, however, when it comes to listening to music.

It started when I sat in a 5 series loaner not long ago that had the Bowers & Wilkins upgrade. The music completely immerses the vehicle cabin with beautiful music sounds coming at you from every direction. It is an experience to drive a car with that quality of audio. Truly, no comparison to the Harmon system found in the 3 series.

Amazing that Bowers is only about $900 option, yet it is 900 times better than the Harmon.

When it comes to music and listening to music, it is really not about money. It's about subjective assessment of sound quality. I guess spending money can skew one's assessment of quality a bit when listening, but the difference is so big, that it is not about money. It is about sound quality.

If I evert sell this car, I can't believe that any purchaser would want the original sound system. My service rep says that 99% of the time , unless something crazy done on the install, replacing car audio does not void any aspect of the new car warranty. I'll keep the Harmon components the shop removed just in case, but I'd otherwise just throw them in the garbage.

No offense, and my opinion here, I don't think it is about money. It is not a very expensive upgrade to get a Focal or other similar system put in when you are spending 55K plus for a car.

I think some people who spent the 900 to upgrade to Harmon are kind of justifying that the sound must be much better, when in their heart, they know it is not.

Again, it's not about the money. It is about your ears, and the sense of listening to an immersive musical environment in an automobile cabin.

If anyone is interested in an upgrade to their Harmon or HiFi, before you spend a nickel, go to your local BMW dealership and take a minute to listen to the Bowers, take a minute to go a Jeep dealer and listen to a Mcintosh audio system, take a minute and go to an Audi dealer and listen to the Bang and Olufson, and on and on.

It will only take a minute to compare that level of sound quality to the Harmon. It is not about the money. It is about listening. But be warned, after listening to any kind of the system like those, you may want to pull out your Harmon system and upgrade.

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by LarryMarcia

"The "drastic improvement" effect generally stems from the psychology of spending so much $ on the upgrade."

I mostly disagree with that. True — spending on some luxury items can instill a sense of quality. False, however, when it comes to listening to music.

It started when I sat in a 5 series loaner not long ago that had the Bowers & Wilkins upgrade. The music completely immerses the vehicle cabin with beautiful music sounds coming at you from every direction. It is an experience to drive a car with that quality of audio. Truly, no comparison to the Harmon system found in the 3 series.

Amazing that Bowers is only about $900 option, yet it is 900 times better than the Harmon.

When it comes to music and listening to music, it is really not about money. It's about subjective assessment of sound quality. I guess spending money can skew one's assessment of quality a bit when listening, but the difference is so big, that it is not about money. It is about sound quality.

If I evert sell this car, I can't believe that any purchaser would want the original sound system. My service rep says that 99% of the time , unless something crazy done on the install, replacing car audio does not void any aspect of the new car warranty. I'll keep the Harmon components the shop removed just in case, but I'd otherwise just throw them in the garbage.

No offense, and my opinion here, I don't think it is about money. It is not a very expensive upgrade to get a Focal or other similar system put in when you are spending 55K plus for a car.

I think some people who spent [...]

Pretty sure Bowers & Wilkins option on the 5 and up is $3400 unless something has changed for MY24.

I’m strongly considering doing Focal fronts with Bavsound subs in my car.

[LarryMarcia]

It's $950, just looked at the BMW website.

Focals are a good choice.

Here is how I feel about listening to some high end car audio systems, like the Bowers, Focal, etc... . The words are from a KBB review by expert reviewer Matt Degen who was reviewing the Mcintosh car audio upgrade in the jeep.


How Does the Jeep McIntosh System Sound?

In a word: Amazing. I’ve reviewed and tested some of the best high-end car audio systems available, from the Bowers & Wilkins system in BMWs to Bang & Olufsen in Audis, Burmester in Mercedes-Benz models, and even the superb ELS system in Acuras. This new McIntosh in the Jeep ranks right up there with the best I’ve heard.

This McIntosh audio system replicates instruments, vocals, and even the very feel of the music itself in a way I’ve rarely – if ever – experienced in a car. And I’m not overstating that word. When playing back some high-quality audio – in this case, high-res FLAC files I had loaded onto a USB stick – you don’t just hear the music in this McIntosh system; you experience it.

The guitar licks and vocals in “Bad” by U2 are so clear, so lifelike, that it feels like Bono and the boys are part of my carpool. The thunderous lows and somber piano notes of Moby’s groundbreaking album “Play” resonated beautifully, while Taylor Swift’s fantastically produced “Lover” is absolute candy for the ears.
I ended up spending several days in the Jeep Grand Cherokee L, and the McIntosh audio system was on for every mile. I listened to album after album, and the system kept surprising me by revealing details I’d never heard before despite listening to songs I’d played countless times before.
All tunes were conveyed with clarity and liveliness I’ve rarely experienced. Music on the McIntosh just sounds more, “real.” I equate it to the difference between a meal at a fast-food joint and one from a Michelin-starred restaurant. Both will satiate hunger, but the quality and experience of the latter are markedly better than the former.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by LarryMarcia

It's $950, just looked at the BMW website.

How Does the Jeep McIntosh System Sound?

In a word: Amazing. I’ve reviewed and tested some of the best high-end car audio systems available, from the Bowers & Wilkins system in BMWs to Bang & Olufsen in Audis, Burmester in Mercedes-Benz models, and even the superb ELS system in Acuras. This new McIntosh in the Jeep ranks right up there with the best I’ve heard.

Having the McIntosh audio in a '23 Grand Cherokee Summit, I disagree with your assessment. Does it sound good, yes, but amazing is not an adjective I would attach to it. There is also some software issues with it where it will lose all quality of sound periodically and sound no better than the standard 4-speaker system in my son's '03 Wrangler.

It's definitely better than the $900 Alpine upgrade, but don't think it's worth the $1900 price tag. Just my opinion.

[TheMaxXHD]

Nobody is saying the HiFi or HK system is excellent. It’s what most people would probably call, “serviceable”.

I have neither the time, nor the money to want to rip out the current HK system. And it does not bother me. The system sounds fine, it’s a good compliment to driving, and I do not blast it anyway. I went with the HK upgrade just because it was an upgrade, however marginal it is over the HiFi and knew I wasn’t going to bother doing any upgrades to the sound system otherwise.

Please, if you don’t like the system, by all means, spend the money and time to upgrade it. And post about it so others can potentially do similar. But keep it to those threads and don’t make a dedicated thread rehashing what tons of other threads have already discussed. We all wish the BW system was offered in the 3 series, but it is not, so here we are. I knew that before I bought the car. I’m content, as are many others.

[Montaver]

Originally Posted by LarryMarcia

It's $950, just looked at the BMW website.

Focals are a good choice.

Here is how I feel about listening to some high end car audio systems, like the Bowers, Focal, etc... . The words are from a KBB review by expert reviewer Matt Degen who was reviewing the Mcintosh car audio upgrade in the jeep.


How Does the Jeep McIntosh System Sound?

In a word: Amazing. I’ve reviewed and tested some of the best high-end car audio systems available, from the Bowers & Wilkins system in BMWs to Bang & Olufsen in Audis, Burmester in Mercedes-Benz models, and even the superb ELS system in Acuras. This new McIntosh in the Jeep ranks right up there with the best I’ve heard.

This McIntosh audio system replicates instruments, vocals, and even the very feel of the music itself in a way I’ve rarely – if ever – experienced in a car. And I’m not overstating that word. When playing back some high-quality audio – in this case, high-res FLAC files I had loaded onto a USB stick – you don’t just hear the music in this McIntosh system; you experience it.

The guitar licks and vocals in “Bad” by U2 are so clear, so lifelike, that it feels like Bono and the boys are part of my carpool. The thunderous lows and somber piano notes of Moby’s groundbreaking album “Play” resonated beautifully, while Taylor Swift’s fantastically produced “Lover” is absolute candy for the ears.
I ended up spending several days in the Jeep Grand Cherokee L, and the McIntosh audio system was on for every mile. I listened to album after album, and the system kept surprising me by revealing details I’d never heard before [...]

The Mcintosh performed pretty poorly in the savage geese test, but every reviewer is different I suppose.

[I800C0LLECT]

Personally, i don’t believe HK is awful. I will be adding an AUDIOFROG 10” sub to the trunk to help it out. Go find some decently recorded music and you’ll find it sounds better. It’s because Logic 7 doesn’t work well with songs where everything is centered. Yes, songs are recorded in stereo but most of the sounds are centered vs discrete left and right channel playback. i.e. main vocals are almost always mono. Bass in pop, hip hop and rap is centered while rock tends to have more R and L panning. Logic 7 works really well with great stereo recordings.

Caring about the audio experience is a slippery slope for car manufacturers where they easily lose money. There isn’t any great reason to focus on the last 10% of audio performance.

[LarryMarcia]

Originally Posted by NightOwl-M340i

Thanks for the write up. I also dislike the HK system and would like to upgrade. Embarrassing that bmw gives you a piece of trash for your speakers when spending this kind of money. My 2010 infiniti had better speakers.

Paulskit "Can you please provide a list of components installed?
Can't say I love H&K, got it mostly because of better interior looks. I'm curious what the cost of upgrade to Focal would be in my country. Is it plug-n-play install?"

I'll post the exact components later after I look at the boxes.

Just please know that changing the HK components -- speakers and sub is not easy and a very tricky install according to the shop. It cost about $900 just for the installation work, and that was with a discount.

Before even considering upgrading to a Focal Elite or Morel Supremo car audio system (or any other high end audio), make one hundred percent sure your installer is confident that it can be done in your particular vehicle.

The installer said he tells anyone thinking of a BMW, get the standard HIFI if possible, as it's easy to pull out those components and start new with after market audio - amp, sub, speakers, wiring.... (They replaced my HK system, but it took 2-3 more hours he said as opposed to a 3 series with the base HIFI.)

I will say that if you are happy with your current Harmon or base HIFI system, don't touch it. If you think maybe you want to spend some money on higher end audio, don't do anything until you go to your authorized BMW dealer and ask for the keys to a vehicle on the lot that has the Bowers system installed. (Or an Audi dealer with a Bang and Olufson equipped car on the lot, or Lexus with Levinson sound, etc.... .)

Listen to it, and then decide if you want to upgrade your current system to something that sounds like that. It is a personal decision based on subjective / personal assessment of sound quality and whether it makes sense to spend the approx extra 3-4K on a high end system.