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      10-20-2020, 05:21 PM   #1
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Car and Driver m440i x-drive review

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/
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      10-20-2020, 06:13 PM   #2
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I'd love to hear opinions from anyone who's driven both an M340i and an M440i to see if there are handling differences. There seem to be such different reviews at the outset. I wonder if that's a result of different expectations between the two models or if they really are different.
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      10-20-2020, 06:23 PM   #3
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C&D M440i Xdrive Review

Car and Driver Tested: 2021 BMW M440i xDrive Noses Away From Its Roots
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      10-20-2020, 06:28 PM   #4
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How is that even possible, the review came out today
BY MIKE SUTTON
OCT 20, 2020

unless, unless there was time travel involved or maybe we live in the Matrix and there was a code somewhere that was screwed up. Ugh, i give up.
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      10-20-2020, 06:32 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstein55 View Post



C&D M440i Xdrive Review

Car and Driver Tested: 2021 BMW M440i xDrive Noses Away From Its Roots
How is that even possible, the review came out today
BY MIKE SUTTON
OCT 20, 2020

unless, unless there was time travel involved or maybe we live in the Matrix and there was a code somewhere that was screwed up. Ugh, i give up.
The review was posted two weeks ago and then weirdly taken down.
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      10-20-2020, 06:33 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstein55 View Post
The review was posted two weeks ago and then weirdly taken down.
Remind you of a certain forum...
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      10-20-2020, 06:52 PM   #7
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https://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/...0i-first-test/

MT also hops on the bandwagon.
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      10-20-2020, 07:25 PM   #8
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Ouch. Understeer seems to be a theme, C/D also reported it in their testing.
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      10-20-2020, 09:17 PM   #9
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Weird how its scored dramatically lower on the skid pad than a similarly equipped M340. It's lower, wider, and longer wheel base would lead you to believe it would be better in this category, no?
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      10-20-2020, 09:24 PM   #10
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understeer provided to you by M ... what in a world!?
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      10-20-2020, 10:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdiddy23 View Post
Weird how its scored dramatically lower on the skid pad than a similarly equipped M340. It's lower, wider, and longer wheel base would lead you to believe it would be better in this category, no?
MT basically hypothesized that maybe the 4-series, instead of being engineered to be a sportier 3-series, was actually engineered to be a boulevard cruiser version of the 3-series.

Defies logic I know. But all the people I know who own BMWs couldn't care less. One of my colleagues today said his brother's new M8 is so much better than the 911 since the Porsche is too sporty and that "nobody" takes corners quickly when driving. So basically, he speaks for most BMW customers. Tech, comfort, and the image are more important.

That's why I wish BMW would just double down on the sporty nature of the 2-series. Clearly the image crowd wants the 3/4-series and think the 2er is for poor people since its lower number designation deems it "entry" level. May as well keep the formula of the next 2er the same so us actual enthusiasts still have something from BMW to call our own.
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      10-21-2020, 06:25 AM   #12
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Handling seems disappointing objectively and subjectively. Hopefully RWD M40i version addresses some of it. C&D mentions the 430i, but the I6 seems to be the best part of the car so hopefully you don't have to drop that.
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      10-21-2020, 06:46 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstein55 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
Ouch. Understeer seems to be a theme, C/D also reported it in their testing.
The understeer is due to it being AWD, no? I wonder if by changing the drive mode to sport plus would send more power to the rear wheels thus cause less understeer
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      10-21-2020, 07:37 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdiddy23 View Post
Weird how its scored dramatically lower on the skid pad than a similarly equipped M340. It's lower, wider, and longer wheel base would lead you to believe it would be better in this category, no?
MT basically hypothesized that maybe the 4-series, instead of being engineered to be a sportier 3-series, was actually engineered to be a boulevard cruiser version of the 3-series.

Defies logic I know. But all the people I know who own BMWs couldn't care less. One of my colleagues today said his brother's new M8 is so much better than the 911 since the Porsche is too sporty and that "nobody" takes corners quickly when driving. So basically, he speaks for most BMW customers. Tech, comfort, and the image are more important.

That's why I wish BMW would just double down on the sporty nature of the 2-series. Clearly the image crowd wants the 3/4-series and think the 2er is for poor people since its lower number designation deems it "entry" level. May as well keep the formula of the next 2er the same so us actual enthusiasts still have something from BMW to call our own.
So sad but so true.
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      10-21-2020, 07:43 AM   #15
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For comparison sake, here is C&D's review of the 2015 435xi:

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15107358/2015-bmw-435i-xdrive-test-review/

Compared to 2015 MY, new one is +200 lbs, apparently more understeer, and sounds like more of a GT.

However it certainly is an improvement in performance metrics:
-Skidpad: .91g vs 0.87g (probably most due to tires)
-Braking distance: 149ft vs 187ft (terrible braking on the 2015!)
-1/4 Mile: 12.3 @ 112 mph vs 13.1 @ 107 mph
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      10-21-2020, 09:25 AM   #16
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OK, I've attempted to compare apples to apples (using MotorTrend data), but there seems to be no publication that has published much about the relative performance of the M340i xDrive to the M440i xDrive, other than 0 to 60, braking, etc. Personally, I think MotorTrend's figure eight test helps, but they tested an M340i RWD, not xDrive. Still, here's a snapshot look at these:



I would love to see the M340i xDrive's figure eight time and grip. Of course, tire selection makes a big difference here, and I'm not sure what tires were on each car.

Subjectively, what I can say is that, the M340i xDrive, like most cars (even RWD cars), show some understeer on initial turn in, especially with early throttle. As most of you know, the car does rotate, and more so that other AWD cars I've driven. I suspect the M340i xDrive is at least 53/47 (and perhaps 54/46) in its weight distribution, since the RWD, as tested by MT, is 52/48 and the M440i xDrive is 54/46. You'd expect this would make a difference in its handling, and it probably does, but most of us mortals won't find a noticeable difference in 1 or 2 percent in either direction. That's even truer when considering the torque vectoring of xDrive.

I'd be shocked if the M340i and M440i, both in xDrive configuration, handled substantially differently. I'm guessing that there's simply a different expectation of a 2 door coupe, especially now that it's been given its own model designation (4 series instead of 3 series). But remember where the 4 series came from. It was a 2-door 3 series. In most ways, it still is. [Insert grille comment here.]
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      10-21-2020, 09:37 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3erMan View Post
OK, I've attempted to compare apples to apples (using MotorTrend data), but there seems to be no publication that has published much about the relative performance of the M340i xDrive to the M440i xDrive, other than 0 to 60, braking, etc. Personally, I think MotorTrend's figure eight test helps, but they tested an M340i RWD, not xDrive. Still, here's a snapshot look at these:



I would love to see the M340i xDrive's figure eight time and grip. Of course, tire selection makes a big difference here, and I'm not sure what tires were on each car.

Subjectively, what I can say is that, the M340i xDrive, like most cars (even RWD cars), show some understeer on initial turn in, especially with early throttle. As most of you know, the car does rotate, and more so that other AWD cars I've driven. I suspect the M340i xDrive is at least 53/47 (and perhaps 54/46) in its weight distribution, since the RWD, as tested by MT, is 52/48 and the M440i xDrive is 54/46. You'd expect this would make a difference in its handling, and it probably does, but most of us mortals won't find a noticeable difference in 1 or 2 percent in either direction. That's even truer when considering the torque vectoring of xDrive.

I'd be shocked if the M340i and M440i, both in xDrive configuration, handled substantially differently. I'm guessing that there's simply a different expectation of a 2 door coupe, especially now that it's been given its own model designation (4 series instead of 3 series). But remember where the 4 series came from. It was a 2-door 3 series. In most ways, it still is. [Insert grille comment here.]
The M340i Xdrive I believe tested a .97 or .98 G on a C&D test
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      10-21-2020, 09:42 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdiddy23 View Post
The M340i Xdrive I believe tested a .97 or .98 G on a C&D test
I believe you're right. Not sure what tires they used. And, C&D always seems to get unusually optimistic results compared to MT. I believe the quarter mile time was 12.3 seconds or something like that.

In any case, point is, the 3 series and 4 series probably have very similar performance and handling characteristics when set up with the same drivetrain configurations.

Last edited by 3erMan; 10-21-2020 at 10:33 AM..
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      10-21-2020, 02:23 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
MT basically hypothesized that maybe the 4-series, instead of being engineered to be a sportier 3-series, was actually engineered to be a boulevard cruiser version of the 3-series.

Defies logic I know. But all the people I know who own BMWs couldn't care less. One of my colleagues today said his brother's new M8 is so much better than the 911 since the Porsche is too sporty and that "nobody" takes corners quickly when driving. So basically, he speaks for most BMW customers. Tech, comfort, and the image are more important.

That's why I wish BMW would just double down on the sporty nature of the 2-series. Clearly the image crowd wants the 3/4-series and think the 2er is for poor people since its lower number designation deems it "entry" level. May as well keep the formula of the next 2er the same so us actual enthusiasts still have something from BMW to call our own.
Many of these same customers praise HP and 0-60mph as the ultimate pinnacle of performance. Easy talking point- "My car hits 60 in under 4 seconds". Almost always see them in the right lane with cruise control set to 59mph.
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      10-21-2020, 03:50 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Many of these same customers praise HP and 0-60mph as the ultimate pinnacle of performance. Easy talking point- "My car hits 60 in under 4 seconds". Almost always see them in the right lane with cruise control set to 59mph.
Well, after your 4th ticket, I mean....

What's crazy to me right now is traffic has REALLY taken "speedlimits are just guidelines" to heart. 55 mph construction zone and I'm in the #3 lane doing 70 with people passing me doing 80-90 all day long. Hell, I had a dump truck come up on me doing about 75 so I picked up my speed a bit just to stay with traffic but damn people. Chill out there. Let's not tempt fate too much.
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      10-21-2020, 03:56 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinewhite3 View Post
Many of these same customers praise HP and 0-60mph as the ultimate pinnacle of performance. Easy talking point- "My car hits 60 in under 4 seconds". Almost always see them in the right lane with cruise control set to 59mph.
Loll I was saying this to some of my buddies yesterday about EVs. Tesla fans will always brag about 0-60 times, yet 99% of Teslas I see are driven like Toyotas.
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      10-21-2020, 04:14 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinewhite3 View Post
Many of these same customers praise HP and 0-60mph as the ultimate pinnacle of performance. Easy talking point- "My car hits 60 in under 4 seconds". Almost always see them in the right lane with cruise control set to 59mph.
Loll I was saying this to some of my buddies yesterday about EVs. Tesla fans will always brag about 0-60 times, yet 99% of Teslas I see are driven like Toyotas.
Tesla fans are the worst. Reading any comment section of a drag race is like watching children bickering. The worst part is that they are convinced that 0-60 is what defines a car, not racing history, handling, feedback, an engine, sound, etc. They clearly are not car enthusiasts and sound so ridiculous with their arguments. They get so upset when something happens to best what is in their minds the only car in the world anyone should buy. The Taycan thread in the Tesla forums is worse than the grill threads here!
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