Price Increases in US

Cammy440iGC · 12-12-2022, 10:37 AM

BMW USA raised its prices the end of last. I know this was expected due to inflation...but still never pleasant.

The M340i is now $56,400 and the M340i x-drive is now $58, 400. So the base MASRP went up $1550.

Of course, there will be the double whammy when the Fed raises borrowing costs again this week.

So both the price of the car and the finance cost of the car both going up...like an inflation club sandwich.

But these are still competitive prices compared to the S4/S5. Heck, will probably be way below the new 4 cylinder C43. In the US, I hear that will start in the mid 60s and even lightly get well into the 70s. I'm not sure who is going to pay $70,000 plus for a 4 cylinder car.

RCook · 12-12-2022, 10:49 AM

Number of friends have moved from German to Korean cars. My brother sold Kias for a while, and I drove several of the high end sedans and SUVs. They are comparable to Germans, better than VW. And, much more reliable. I would toss in Mazda SUVs as competition also. Major Japanese brands are fine, but quality of materials has not kept up.

High end Kia/Hyundai and Genesis are coming on strong. From laughable rental cars to world class luxury cars.

Amazing how far Korean companies have come. Wonder if Germany is paying attention?

Kvally · 12-12-2022, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCook

High end Kia/Hyundai and Genesis are coming on strong. From laughable rental cars to world class luxury cars.

Now THAT is funny.

LPTyler · 12-12-2022, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCook

Number of friends have moved from German to Korean cars. My brother sold Kias for a while, and I drove several of the high end sedans and SUVs. They are comparable to Germans, better than VW. And, much more reliable. I would toss in Mazda SUVs as competition also. Major Japanese brands are fine, but quality of materials has not kept up.

High end Kia/Hyundai and Genesis are coming on strong. From laughable rental cars to world class luxury cars.

Amazing how far Korean companies have come. Wonder if Germany is paying attention?

I strongly considered a Kia stinger. It was pretty nice, but the dealership experience was so bad I just left. If they want to compete in the same market as bmw, they need to fix the buying experience. I also saw a used bmw on the lot and it reinforced what I really want.

RCook · 12-12-2022, 09:21 PM

My recent BMW buying experience was not much better. Salespeople don't know the cars or option. One 'guru' on staff, all the sales people bug him. No one really seems care, likely because they are not paid enough to.

My brother sold Kias for years. The sales staff was a revolving door, no one wanted to take training, learn the products. Most lasted only a few weeks. He made a decent living because he knew the cars, the market, and referrals meant that customers asked for him when they came in.

That is the state of the industry for all manufacturers. The future model will likely be slimmed down dealer model with a handful of cars and an order computer system. Some used cars, and the service business.

We generally dislike car dealers, but they serve a purpose. Buffer for manufacturers when they need to dump inventory to hit EPS on the end of the quarter. And, the service/warranty business can keep the doors open, along with lucrative used cars/trucks sales.

Cammy440iGC · 12-13-2022, 09:13 AM

I too have found that when talking with the dealer sales person...BMW, Audi, Mercedes, I know more about the car than the sales person. Especially when your shopping an S, M, or AMG. Its like they have no idea about what seperates these cars from their standard line up.

They don't know the engines, the transmissions, the brakes, exhaust...nothing.

But what I find puzzling...if I had to spend 8 hours a day in a show room with these cars....why not learn about them? What else do you have to do sitting in a show room all day? Wouldn't you be the least bit curious about the products surrounding you and which you are charged with selling?

If someone walked into my office....off the street...and knew more about my job, my company, and my products than I did....I would be very embarrassed. Whatever job or profession you take up...you should strive to know more about it that the average person on the street who walks in the door.

Montaver · 12-13-2022, 09:43 AM

Personally I'm not particularly bothered if the sales person knows a lot about the car. The chances of them knowing more than me is basically zero. If they are a genuine enthusiast it makes the process more enjoyable though. However realistically if I'm engaging with a salesperson its to tell them what car I want and the level of discount. After that I want them to be responsive and get the paperwork lined up quickly. When at the dealer I'm asking more dealer related questions (how many cars are you selling, what's popular options, how busy is service etc.) just out of curiosity.

Case in point when I got my M2C, I emailed the dealer who had one on their lot in the spec I wanted. I said I want 8% off MSRP and i'll come pick it up on Saturday. Please pick me up at the train station. Similarly when I bought my GT4 I emailed with a few questions about the history. Called him saying i'll pay XX, I will get on a flight with a certified check and be there in the morning. Please have someone pick me up at the airport. Salesperson makes a simple, easy, quick sale. My current lease is up soon, sales guy texted me. I said i'll be there in March to put in a new order. Cool see you then. Easy. Qualified customers don't need to be sold to really, they just need a smooth and hassle free experience.

The other thing I would say is sales people have not had to work hard to sell cars for two years. They've had more buyers than cars. They don't need to work hard to acquire new customers. The long term sales guys will do OK in the coming down market, its the newer guys with a small book that will struggle unless they sharpen up.

doublevanosrc · 12-14-2022, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kvally

Now THAT is funny.

Agreed, especially after reading this:

https://fortune.com/2022/09/22/hyund...-hack-thieves/

TheKandyman · 12-14-2022, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doublevanosrc

Agreed, especially after reading this:

https://fortune.com/2022/09/22/hyund...-hack-thieves/

As if BMW hasn’t had its share of security issues in the past?
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/6162...less-car-fobs/

It is silly IMO to scoff at Genesis/Hyundai/Kia these days. Their value (combination of price, performance, luxury, reliability, etc.) is quite compelling. Now, I won’t trade my M440 GC for a Kia Stinger GT2 even with the $10k+ price difference, but when I was considering the M340, the Genesis G70 3.3T was on my short list. If you’re a brand loyalist or a badge snob, I understand not looking at the Koreans. But if you’re open minded, it would be silly to not look at them.

Regarding the car buying experience, I agree that salespeople should know more, but also remember that we are the enthusiast, not the salespeople. We typically have spent days/weeks/months researching the car before we talk to a salesperson. The average salesperson knows just enough to impress a buyer who walks into a dealership after seeing something cool in a commercial.

Kvally · 12-15-2022, 10:30 AM

I wouldn't buy a Kiandai over BMW, GM, Toyota, Honda, Audi, Jaguar, Volvo and Nissan. Maybe over Dodge though.

doublevanosrc · 12-21-2022, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheKandyman

As if BMW hasn’t had its share of security issues in the past?
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/6162...less-car-fobs/

Those BMWs were being hacked, anything tech these days can be hacked. The Hyundia/ Kia issue is due to the lack of cars without immobilizers, seriously it's 2022 and they sell cars without immobilizers?? It's an old but proven technology that most cars come with even less expensive ones like GMs.

Yes Kia and Hyundias offer a very compelling value but you have to think they are some areas were cuts are being made, everyone is making cuts these days but a company who sells mostly on the value aspect is going make more cuts than others.

RCook · 12-22-2022, 12:10 PM

Why don't most car salesmen know anything? Likely because they are not paid much, and dealers are not good at developing their people. Assume that most will stay for a short while then move on. As we move to larger dealership groups, that may change. But, compressed margins means it may not.

When I bought my CPO G20, salesmen were arguing with their girlfriends on the phone and smoking in the back lot. My sales guy didn't know the cars, constantly asking the 'Guru' details that seemed to be common questions.

Tip from Service writer I talked to about reliability, 'follow up on everything, the sales guys won't' He was correct.

My brother sold Kias, now trucks. He mostly checks online orders and handles complex commercial truck sales, which requires you know the products. Tire kickers are sent to the website to figure out what they want. Most of the real 'sales', and nearly all the profit, are on used trucks. Only two people handle it all.

Buying a new car now is like ordering a Pizza. No salesman needed most of the time.

12-12-2022, 10:37 AM	#1
Cammy440iGC Second Lieutenant 158 Rep 225 Posts Drives: 2024 M440GC xDrive Join Date: May 2019 Location: Memphis iTrader: (0)	Price Increases in US BMW USA raised its prices the end of last. I know this was expected due to inflation...but still never pleasant. The M340i is now $56,400 and the M340i x-drive is now $58, 400. So the base MASRP went up $1550. Of course, there will be the double whammy when the Fed raises borrowing costs again this week. So both the price of the car and the finance cost of the car both going up...like an inflation club sandwich. But these are still competitive prices compared to the S4/S5. Heck, will probably be way below the new 4 cylinder C43. In the US, I hear that will start in the mid 60s and even lightly get well into the 70s. I'm not sure who is going to pay $70,000 plus for a 4 cylinder car.
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12-12-2022, 10:49 AM	#2
RCook Private 44 Rep 97 Posts Drives: 2019 BMW 330i Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Northern Californa iTrader: (0)	Number of friends have moved from German to Korean cars. My brother sold Kias for a while, and I drove several of the high end sedans and SUVs. They are comparable to Germans, better than VW. And, much more reliable. I would toss in Mazda SUVs as competition also. Major Japanese brands are fine, but quality of materials has not kept up. High end Kia/Hyundai and Genesis are coming on strong. From laughable rental cars to world class luxury cars. Amazing how far Korean companies have come. Wonder if Germany is paying attention?
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12-12-2022, 09:21 PM	#5
RCook Private 44 Rep 97 Posts Drives: 2019 BMW 330i Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Northern Californa iTrader: (0)	My recent BMW buying experience was not much better. Salespeople don't know the cars or option. One 'guru' on staff, all the sales people bug him. No one really seems care, likely because they are not paid enough to. My brother sold Kias for years. The sales staff was a revolving door, no one wanted to take training, learn the products. Most lasted only a few weeks. He made a decent living because he knew the cars, the market, and referrals meant that customers asked for him when they came in. That is the state of the industry for all manufacturers. The future model will likely be slimmed down dealer model with a handful of cars and an order computer system. Some used cars, and the service business. We generally dislike car dealers, but they serve a purpose. Buffer for manufacturers when they need to dump inventory to hit EPS on the end of the quarter. And, the service/warranty business can keep the doors open, along with lucrative used cars/trucks sales.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

12-13-2022, 09:13 AM	#6
Cammy440iGC Second Lieutenant 158 Rep 225 Posts Drives: 2024 M440GC xDrive Join Date: May 2019 Location: Memphis iTrader: (0)	I too have found that when talking with the dealer sales person...BMW, Audi, Mercedes, I know more about the car than the sales person. Especially when your shopping an S, M, or AMG. Its like they have no idea about what seperates these cars from their standard line up. They don't know the engines, the transmissions, the brakes, exhaust...nothing. But what I find puzzling...if I had to spend 8 hours a day in a show room with these cars....why not learn about them? What else do you have to do sitting in a show room all day? Wouldn't you be the least bit curious about the products surrounding you and which you are charged with selling? If someone walked into my office....off the street...and knew more about my job, my company, and my products than I did....I would be very embarrassed. Whatever job or profession you take up...you should strive to know more about it that the average person on the street who walks in the door.
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12-13-2022, 09:43 AM	#7
Montaver Lieutenant Colonel 2221 Rep 1,678 Posts Drives: G87 M2 & M340i LCI Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: NY iTrader: (0)	Personally I'm not particularly bothered if the sales person knows a lot about the car. The chances of them knowing more than me is basically zero. If they are a genuine enthusiast it makes the process more enjoyable though. However realistically if I'm engaging with a salesperson its to tell them what car I want and the level of discount. After that I want them to be responsive and get the paperwork lined up quickly. When at the dealer I'm asking more dealer related questions (how many cars are you selling, what's popular options, how busy is service etc.) just out of curiosity. Case in point when I got my M2C, I emailed the dealer who had one on their lot in the spec I wanted. I said I want 8% off MSRP and i'll come pick it up on Saturday. Please pick me up at the train station. Similarly when I bought my GT4 I emailed with a few questions about the history. Called him saying i'll pay XX, I will get on a flight with a certified check and be there in the morning. Please have someone pick me up at the airport. Salesperson makes a simple, easy, quick sale. My current lease is up soon, sales guy texted me. I said i'll be there in March to put in a new order. Cool see you then. Easy. Qualified customers don't need to be sold to really, they just need a smooth and hassle free experience. The other thing I would say is sales people have not had to work hard to sell cars for two years. They've had more buyers than cars. They don't need to work hard to acquire new customers. The long term sales guys will do OK in the coming down market, its the newer guys with a small book that will struggle unless they sharpen up.
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12-15-2022, 10:30 AM	#10
Kvally Car Lover 8 Rep 24 Posts Drives: 2023 BMW 330i xDrive Join Date: Dec 2022 Location: Wisconsin iTrader: (0) Garage List 2017 Jeep Wrangler [0.00] 2005 Chevrolet Corv ... [0.00] 2023 BMW 330i xDrive [0.00]	I wouldn't buy a Kiandai over BMW, GM, Toyota, Honda, Audi, Jaguar, Volvo and Nissan. Maybe over Dodge though.
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12-22-2022, 12:10 PM	#12
RCook Private 44 Rep 97 Posts Drives: 2019 BMW 330i Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Northern Californa iTrader: (0)	Why don't most car salesmen know anything? Likely because they are not paid much, and dealers are not good at developing their people. Assume that most will stay for a short while then move on. As we move to larger dealership groups, that may change. But, compressed margins means it may not. When I bought my CPO G20, salesmen were arguing with their girlfriends on the phone and smoking in the back lot. My sales guy didn't know the cars, constantly asking the 'Guru' details that seemed to be common questions. Tip from Service writer I talked to about reliability, 'follow up on everything, the sales guys won't' He was correct. My brother sold Kias, now trucks. He mostly checks online orders and handles complex commercial truck sales, which requires you know the products. Tire kickers are sent to the website to figure out what they want. Most of the real 'sales', and nearly all the profit, are on used trucks. Only two people handle it all. Buying a new car now is like ordering a Pizza. No salesman needed most of the time.
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