09-03-2020, 11:15 AM | #23 | |
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Tesla has become a remarkable line of vehicles in a short period of time. Some really cool features and wild performance. However, they need a refresh on the Model S. Musk has yet to really be challenged, but the Germans appear to be coming after him. Porsche, Audi, and now BMW, are building some cool stuff. And next week the intro of the new U.S. built Lucid Air. Good competition will benefit the entire EV market and force Tesla to step up its game. |
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09-15-2020, 04:05 PM | #24 | |
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The other aspect is the availability of service and parts....from what I read, Tesla is abysmal when it comes to parts...worked at an authorized Tesla collision center....longest wait for parts. I've also read that supposedly, Volvo dealers will be able to service Polestar vehicles...I live a LONG way from either LA or NYC..where Polestar 2 test drives are currently available....
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09-17-2020, 09:28 AM | #25 | |
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Tesla's QC has been improving, and the OTA updates are a nice feature. Having a drive-in service center or a mobile option available locally is a desirable option. We can only hope better service coverage is an ongoing priority. |
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09-17-2020, 11:10 AM | #26 | |
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I do agree that the screens and lack of physical buttons does allow tesla to upgrade functionality and user experience. However, I really like simple button controls for things like HVAC and wipers. Pretty annoying when you have to navigate menus while your driving for hvac which is the case now. Sure you get used to it, but still, nothing more simple than a button with tactile feedback. |
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09-18-2020, 09:59 AM | #27 | |
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https://www.businessinsider.com/tesl...y-2019-10?op=1 I too like the addition of physical buttons for simple car functions. A big reason why the i4 appeals to me. I hope BMW integrates OTA updates with the i4 when it becomes available. I tend to like smaller cars. Something in the 175 inch length or less. Seems like most of the EV's are larger. My main around town car is a 2019 Mini S. Does everything I need it to do. Mini offers a EV, but it has minimal range. I'm hoping to see a LR compact "something" become available in the near future. So far the only manufacturer that has hinted at a compact is Tesla. As an aside, I find it very difficult to find any information that is completely truthful and unbiased. This seems to apply to all media sources IMO. Pundits and journalists bring whatever biases they have to their reports and stories and slant their articles to support their personal views (sadly, this isn't by accident). A shame since it makes a person wanting the real story on anything harder and harder to get. We certainly live in interesting times (for better or worse)................. |
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09-18-2020, 11:13 AM | #28 | |
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Totally agree with you. It's hard to find honest and none biased reviews, especially with Tesla's. It's the mentality the company wanted from the start - your either with them or against them, theirs no in the middle. The MINI is an awesome car, especially after BMW took over and started making engines for them in the most recent generations. The EV Mini is a disappointment as it's practically an i3. I wish BMW did a better job and knocked it out of the park with the EV MINI as I think it would have killed. As for the OTA, I'm positive it will be standard. Even the current G series cars receive OTA updates. Physical buttons do limit what can be updated, but that's ok with me. I don't need my AC controls changed or back seat heaters unlocked(Not a deal-breaker for me). Food for thought, think about this. The hardware for feature updates is already physically in the car. Tesla just unlocks it. Most of the feature-packed OTA's are, IMO, a gimmick, unless they improve drivability due to an error made in the code. Thus I think, BMW will, without a doubt, will implement OTA's, especially for battery, drive units, and BMS functions. |
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09-24-2020, 08:17 PM | #29 |
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i'm expecting every trim level of i4 to be at least $10k more expensive than the comparable model 3 trim even after full incentives are applied $7500+$2500 here in California. Up to the consumers to decide if the exterior, interior and badge is worth the extra money. bottom line, the more competition the better.
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09-24-2020, 09:56 PM | #30 | |
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09-25-2020, 02:28 PM | #31 | |
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I drove Audis for 20+ years and Audi build quality is near the top of the industry. My Model 3 isn’t at that same level, but it’s not too far behind, and is clearly above mainstream (Honda/Toyota/Buick, etc.) cars. We can disagree about the quality of the interior (I find it to be refreshingly simple, very solidly built and very comfortable; you might think a 3 series or C-Class is “better”, but I find both to be overwrought and distractingly disjointed) Nary a singe rattle or squeak in my car after 25K miles and never a need for any service of any kind. The legacy mfrs have a tough task ahead of them to match Tesla’s overall package. Witness the Taycan - beautiful, nicely built but woefully inefficient and very expensive. Same for the Jaguar iPace. Tesla will likely have an easier time updating its interiors than the legacy mfrs will improving their EV’s’ efficiency by 30%, or cultivating a totallly seamless DC fast charging experience for long distance travel anything like Tesla’s Supercharger network. |
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09-25-2020, 08:41 PM | #32 | |
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https://www.thedrive.com/tech/36274/...rade-fake-wood https://electrek.co/2020/07/15/video...-bumper-viral/ Good thing you haven't needed repair: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2...e-battery.html The bottom line for Tesla is the most advanced EV powertrain now available (until Lucid launches) unfortunately wrapped by an underdeveloped, amateur vehicle. Please don't reply with sales numbers. People buy "billions" of what they think is "food" at McD's.
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09-25-2020, 09:06 PM | #33 | |
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Or is it just possible that the highest owner satisfaction in the industry BY FAR isn’t simply a coincidence? |
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09-25-2020, 10:26 PM | #34 | |
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At one point, they had $1000 of mine as a deposit. I then had the chance to see a Model 3 Tesla deemed high enough quality to be a display vehicle in one of their showrooms. It was pitiful for the poor fit and finish inside and out...too long to list here. And, that is one they were proud enough of to display! The best thing about Tesla was the speed of the deposit refund. The owner satisfaction phenomenon is easy. Cognitive dissonance. Of course these "pioneers" of the "latest and greatest" report high satisfaction. Same behavior happened with the AMC Pacer. Until only recently, Tesla Model 3 owners reported enough defects for the car to actually lose a recommendation based on quality alone (not performance) from CU. Regardless of how many are sold and how many convince themselves they are happy (and nothing really wrong with that...the happier the better), there is no denying the vast array of shortfalls of the actual vehicles, if being objective. We can most assuredly expect better from all the experienced and knowledgeable competitors who are now starting to appear.
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09-25-2020, 10:44 PM | #35 | |
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My opinion is based on the experience of working there pre and during model 3. I've seen a lot of examples of loose lower ball joint bolts, rear bumpers falling off, parts missing from the factory, seats missing bolts, loose grounds that randomly stall the car - all on new or almost new delivered cars. The rule of thumb is to never buy near the beginning or end of the quarter as these cars are known to be "Pumped Out". Based on what I've seen, pretty much any manufacturer on the US market has better build quality than Tesla, period. This is also after spending 5yrs at BMW. As for the interior, your correct, it's easy to upgrade an interior that has one screen. Not much of a bar set there. Look how old the Model s is with nothing major refreshed since 2016 when the drive units and battery pack were redesigned and some bodywork. Don't get me started on the tech inside and out. It's outdated and so is the look of the car. IMO, they would have been better off refreshing the whole car to position themselves to compete against the upcoming competitors from Lucid, MBZ, and BMW. Regarding the Taycan. They consistently exceed range specifications without having to hypermile the car. Porsche would rather under-promise than under deliver. Not something easily found when searching Tesla range. For anyone who is considering buying a Tesla, visit the forums and see exactly what I'm talking about. You'll be able to see a larger picture of overall quality vs reading a pissing match on bimmer forums, lol. |
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09-25-2020, 11:29 PM | #36 | |
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but the instant torque(5-60, 30-50, 50-70), low center of gravity handling, supercharging, range and autopilot won me over. combined they made me overlook a lot of the other not-so-good stuff. i have zero loyalty to any car brands and will switch to another EV manufacturer as long as they can provide the above at a lower price than the model 3. |
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09-26-2020, 07:01 AM | #37 |
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It’s amazing to me how many people make blanket statements about Teslas (or any make, really) who have never actually owned the vehicle in question. As if reading forum comments gives a clear overview of the ownership experience. LOL.
Or as if all buyers of any brand that the individual doesn’t like are unable to discern reality. Double LOL. |
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09-26-2020, 11:10 AM | #38 |
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FWIW, in today's "No Good News news cycle", it's easy to find articles or videos disparaging any product. Scotty Kilmer and BMW comes to mind:
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...tty+kilmer+BMW You can knock a car company that has only been in business for 17 years for QC and assembly issues comparing it to others that have been in the business for 100+ years. Yet the upstart has all the old timers scrambling to catch up with their technology. You hear of a few oddball cases that grab headlines (remember our BMW's spontaneously combusting everywhere?) and everyone repeats it. Mine hasn't even started to smoke yet Tesla QC will improve and by all accounts maintain it's lead over the others in battery development. Others will slowly catch up once battery tech hits it's limit. I hope BMW produces the i4 with the same fit and finish as their ICE cars while providing a range that comes close to the LR Model 3 (and not priced it too far beyond it's suggested $50-60K starting price). If so, I'm in. |
09-26-2020, 04:01 PM | #39 | |||
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Time and quality should never be associated in the statement. Think about it. Quality is built into the product, time does not build quality. Especially since panel stamping and automotive engineering have been around for a century. This argument can be made with new technology such as batteries and drive units as the processes were freshly developed. So with that said, Tesla QC will only improve when they decide to improve the process, not as time goes on. As for the Tech, I agree, it's a tough road ahead for traditional manufacturers and they are at a clear disadvantage - they also have more lose than Tesla ever has. |
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09-27-2020, 12:04 PM | #40 | |
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The problem with Tesla that doesn't seem to afflict traditional OEMs to the same degree is hubris. No one should dispute that Tesla developed the world's leading state-of-the-art electric powertrain. The problem became that, having done so, they thought they had similar capability for an entire vehicle that surrounds it. There are companies such as NedCar or Magna Steyr who could have partnered with them and designed and built the car around that Tesla powertrain for them. Even if those potential partners did nothing more than assembly, Tesla would have been far ahead and far more competent and desireable as a brand. We've read reasons in above posts as to why owners overlook the poor results that eventuated from Tesla's mismatch of confidence and capability for an entire vehicle program. But, they are simply offsetting "Things Gone Right" (e.g. speed) that allowed some people to diminish the importance of the "Things Gone Wrong", which are objectively demonstrable and unfortunately far higher in number than what could have been otherwise.
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09-27-2020, 03:30 PM | #41 | |
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Tesla's powertrain is unbeatable! It's the overall package that takes away from an amazing car. It would be interesting if Tesla made its powertrain available to other manufacturers. Almost like the F1 system where you can buy the chassis/engine from the Manufacturer teams. Similar to what Toyota did with the Supra. We'll see what the EV world looks like in the next 5yrs. I'm not opposed to going Tesla, it's just not at the top of my list. It's going to be interesting to see what the competition develops. |
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09-27-2020, 04:26 PM | #42 | |
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09-27-2020, 05:11 PM | #43 |
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Interesting perspective given that the Model 3 is recommended by CR, and is rated significantly higher than the vaunted BMW 3 series.
Or do you only care what CR says when you can find a circumstance that supports your point of view?? |
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09-27-2020, 05:34 PM | #44 | |
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Poor for a long time: https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...bility-issues/ They have improved recently: https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...20CR%20members. There seems to be hope for them and a couple of us have said we would look again in the future. That does not lessen the poor start they had as over-confident novices who missed the chance to do it right the first time. Maybe next-gen Model 3 will excel with lessons learned.
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