[bri1042]

Originally Posted by rak299

I never opened the sunroof on my F30, and I think they all eventually leak.

CF was an easy choice for me.

I'm starting to think I got lucky when it comes to leaky sunroofs. Most of the cars I've owned since 1990 have had sunroofs and none of them ever leaked. Or I just never had one that was old enough to hit the "eventually" point as I think the oldest one was about 10 years old when it left me.

I always loved sunroofs, but my partner hates having sun shining on his head so I stopped using the last one I had. Five plus years and two slick-top M's later I don't miss it.

Edit: As I didn't spec out and order my car, it was a lucky initial supply opportunity, if it had a sunroof I probably still would have bought it...IOMG erased all thought when I saw it.

[godunovs65]

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

Bleh. Do teenage boys even like cars anymore or have an ambition of buying a car at all?

I don't see Civics with warped carbon hoods as much now, but they were galore in the early 2000's. That's the reason I don't want the CF roof now. The memory of those hoods is still hurting me.

Originally Posted by Ezra168

I love this discussion!

I am interested….are that many of you custom ordering a car with resale in mind?

I find it amusing for someone with the means to custom order a $100k+ car actually caring that much about resale?

It definitely has not been a consideration in anything I built in mine.

It’s like doing full body PPF…if you aren’t planning to keep for a time, why bother…seems to only benefit the next person?

Just a thought since this has been a lively thread!

$100K+ is only when you order an xDrive with ALL options including CF seats. I'm ordering a purist's 6MT edition with only functional options. No full leather and 18" wheels. The front camera is a must though. $79K is still a lot, but NavyFed gives a nice discount.

Originally Posted by OtoPA

Mine's a keeper, typically drive a car 10+yrs, so I get what I want at the time. 318i conv. for 11yrs, Wrangler for 10. F150 cause I moved out into the county when retired, and now 'old guy fast car' that I'll keep till they take my keys away. (M4Comp w/ sunroof)

Same here. 15 years each or until death do us part. Actually, I'm ordering my third car ever. Since I only buy them once in 15 years, the price doubles every time. I couldn't wrap my mind around getting a $45K car in 2010, and now $90 is the new reality. Alas, not too many new, not boring 6MT cars around.

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

I keep my cars forever. No consideration at all for resale. If it's worth nothing in 10 years I don't give a shit.

True, same here. My Infiniti G37 almost fully depreciated after 13 years and 220K miles. It was designed to be driven, not kept for resale.

Originally Posted by rak299

I never opened the sunroof on my F30, and I think they all eventually leak.

CF was an easy choice for me.

If you start thinking that way, everything will break, leak and decompose. They cannot all leak. Some will, that's true, but you get a new seal and it will stop leaking.

[godunovs65]

Originally Posted by bri1042

I'm starting to think I got lucky when it comes to leaky sunroofs. Most of the cars I've owned since 1990 have had sunroofs and none of them ever leaked. Or I just never had one that was old enough to hit the "eventually" point as I think the oldest one was about 10 years old when it left me.

I always loved sunroofs, but my partner hates having sun shining on his head so I stopped using the last one I had. Five plus years and two slick-top M's later I don't miss it.

Edit: As I didn't spec out and order my car, it was a lucky initial supply opportunity, if it had a sunroof I probably still would have bought it...IOMG erased all thought when I saw it.

I've never had a leaky sunroof either. I must agree, the sun shining from above also makes me close the shade. And that's the reason to doubt the sunroof. Manual M4's can be bought without waiting and configuring these days. There's a Brooklyn Gray in the next town and an IOMG within a few hours from me. Both with carbon roofs. I still prefer the Skyscraper Gray, which means some waiting time.

[geko29]

Originally Posted by godunovs65

You're right, the roof isn't that low even with the sunroof. I can see how a roof with a hole in the middle is not rigid for fast turns if the whole car is designed to have a CF roof. No comparison to 911, it's a different design. The CF roof's rigidity compensates for the rest of the car's construction. I'm sure the glass will shatter with a non-zero probability if they say so. Sunroof is nice! And you get the same color roof as the rest of the car too.

It's not clear if you're talking about the 911 or the G8X in the bolded sentence. If the latter, note that the roof panel is not part of the car's structure. it is tacked (for the metal) or glued on (for the CF) at the edges, and is not a stressed component. All of the torsional loads are carried by the 3 crossmembers under the roof panel.

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

Bleh. Do teenage boys even like cars anymore or have an ambition of buying a car at all?

Mine does. He stole my tuned 335d. But that meant I could replace it a G80 so I can't really be mad at him.

Originally Posted by godunovs65

$100K+ is only when you order an xDrive with ALL options including CF seats. I'm ordering a purist's 6MT edition with only functional options. No full leather and 18" wheels. The front camera is a must though. $79K is still a lot, but NavyFed gives a nice discount.

Not true. My 6MT is well-equipped, but doesn't have buckets, CCBs, M Driver's Package, or any port-installed options (M carbon bits, MPHAS, Exhaust etc). It stickered for $94.4k, and TTL brought that to 6 figures easily. Total OTD with ceramic coating and tire/wheel protection was $106k.

[godunovs65]

Originally Posted by geko29

It's not clear if you're talking about the 911 or the G8X in the bolded sentence. If the latter, note that the roof panel is not part of the car's structure. it is tacked (for the metal) or glued on (for the CF) at the edges, and is not a stressed component. All of the torsional loads are carried by the 3 crossmembers under the roof panel.


Not true. My 6MT is well-equipped, but doesn't have buckets, CCBs, M Driver's Package, or any port-installed options (M carbon bits, MPHAS, Exhaust etc). It stickered for $94.4k, and TTL brought that to 6 figures easily. Total OTD with ceramic coating and tire/wheel protection was $106k.

The roof's explanation makes sense. Also, I've no idea how 911 is built. To that matter, no idea how they built the CF roof on the M3/4. I only see what the official documentation says. I admit, it may not tell you the whole truth.

I don't see how you can get to $94.4 by configuring an M3 and adding options online. Did you get an Individual paint or options not listed in the online configurator to get the sticker to $94.4?

[geko29]

Originally Posted by godunovs65

The roof's explanation makes sense. Also, I've no idea how 911 is built. To that matter, no idea how they built the CF roof on the M3/4. I only see what the official documentation says. I admit, it may not tell you the whole truth.

Kies has a video where they cut off the roof of an F30 to replace it with the F80's carbon roof, and it shows what I'm talking about very well.

Originally Posted by godunovs65

I don't see how you can get to $94.4 by configuring an M3 and adding options online. Did you get an Individual paint or options not listed in the online configurator to get the sticker to $94.4?

Yes, Individual paint like half the posters here . But nothing off-book. Here's my 2023 build:

Base 74,300
Grigio Telesto Pearl 4,500
KO Full Leather 2,300
Parking Assistant+ 700
Executive Package 1,550
M Drive Professional 900
825M Bi-Color 1,300
M Shadowline lights 300
Ventilated seats 350
Carbon Fiber Trim 950
Icon Laser Lights 1,000
Drive Recorder 100
Wireless Charging 200
Personal eSim 5G 300
M Carbon Exterior package 4,700
Destination 995

Total 94,445

[Needsdecaf]

I don't get these "they all leak" things. Did you guys last have sunroofs in the 70's or something?

The panoramic roof in some of the older BMW's had an issue with leaking, but that was mainly from the drains getting backed up. But that's about it.

[GolfCoyote]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

I don't get these "they all leak" things. Did you guys last have sunroofs in the 70's or something?

The panoramic roof in some of the older BMW's had an issue with leaking, but that was mainly from the drains getting backed up. But that's about it.

They definitely can leak. My MK7 GTI has been in like 3 times for sun roof issues, the roof cracks at the front corners, and the clear coat fails right at the front of the sunroof/roofline. This is not just my car but a known issue with MK7/7.5.
I get it, apples to oranges comparison but it’s a newer car and still suffers from sun roof issues.

[godunovs65]

Originally Posted by geko29

Kies has a video where they cut off the roof of an F30 to replace it with the F80's carbon roof, and it shows what I'm talking about very well.



Yes, Individual paint like half the posters here . But nothing off-book. Here's my 2023 build:

Base 74,300
Grigio Telesto Pearl 4,500
KO Full Leather 2,300
Parking Assistant+ 700
Executive Package 1,550
M Drive Professional 900
825M Bi-Color 1,300
M Shadowline lights 300
Ventilated seats 350
Carbon Fiber Trim 950
Icon Laser Lights 1,000
Drive Recorder 100
Wireless Charging 200
Personal eSim 5G 300
M Carbon Exterior package 4,700
Destination 995

Total 94,445

That video can create some serious sunroof induced anxiety. A friend reported clogged water drains on his Z4, so I can attest that it can happen on a BMW.

You were right about the options. They add up quickly. The base MSRP this year included a number of the options you paid for. But it's a much higher base MSRP. I'm getting the $650 Skyscraper Gray and only functional options, such as parking assistant, drive recorder, ventilated seats. No lasers though, regular LEDs, they are removing lasers in March anyway. Tint for sure. PPF - not sure. I don't think it will rust through from rock chips. Still time to decide.
I am also on the M2 waiting list for a 2025 model, long waits on the M2. If M2 gets the Skyscraper Gray, I may choose that one, with a moonroof. The current M2 colors are not immediately appealing to me.

[xxyion]

Originally Posted by Ezra168

I love this discussion!

I am interested….are that many of you custom ordering a car with resale in mind?

I find it amusing for someone with the means to custom order a $100k+ car actually caring that much about resale?

It definitely has not been a consideration in anything I built in mine.

It’s like doing full body PPF…if you aren’t planning to keep for a time, why bother…seems to only benefit the next person?

Just a thought since this has been a lively thread!

I never buy a car with resale value in mind. For me it's always about how much am I going to enjoy the car. I take the same mindset to PPF. I hate seeing rock chips and so therefore i put PPF on the most exposed areas. Depending on the car and how i'm going to drive it, depends on the type of PPF i'm going to put on it. My GT4 got full body. It was meant to be a total track car and with how low it was and in my area, rock chips are very common. For my M4, it's not as low, dont plan on tracking it as much so it just gets full front PPF. My Golf R only got bumper and hood.

[nalnass]

Originally Posted by GolfCoyote

They definitely can leak. My MK7 GTI has been in like 3 times for sun roof issues, the roof cracks at the front corners, and the clear coat fails right at the front of the sunroof/roofline. This is not just my car but a known issue with MK7/7.5.
I get it, apples to oranges comparison but it’s a newer car and still suffers from sun roof issues.

Have you ever had a problem with a bmw sunroof? I’ve had problems with non-bmw sunroofs sure, but out of the many bmws I’ve been in over the years, I’ve yet to experience a problem.
I know you said apples to oranges, but why are you comparing bmw and vw with something that’s strictly build-quality based?

[GolfCoyote]

Originally Posted by nalnass

Have you ever had a problem with a bmw sunroof? I’ve had problems with non-bmw sunroofs sure, but out of the many bmws I’ve been in over the years, I’ve yet to experience a problem.
I know you said apples to oranges, but why are you comparing bmw and vw with something that’s strictly build-quality based?

Because the person I was responding to said something to the effect of “have none of you had a sunroof since the 70s?”
My point being modern cars still have sunroof issues. That’s why I’m comparing the two.

[FloridaM5]

My f90 had the carbon roof. My g80 has a sunroof. I could go either way. I never looked at either of them.

[solstice]

Get the sunroof if you can fit and you will use it. All other aspects for or against are bullshit.

[bishop4142]

Carbon or metal.... hard to choose so I went with the convertible. 🤔

[godunovs65]

Originally Posted by FloridaM5

My f90 had the carbon roof. My g80 has a sunroof. I could go either way. I never looked at either of them.

And your Jeep has no roof. Nor doors. Or at least it was meant to be driven like that.

Originally Posted by xxyion

I never buy a car with resale value in mind. For me it's always about how much am I going to enjoy the car. I take the same mindset to PPF. I hate seeing rock chips and so therefore i put PPF on the most exposed areas. Depending on the car and how i'm going to drive it, depends on the type of PPF i'm going to put on it. My GT4 got full body. It was meant to be a total track car and with how low it was and in my area, rock chips are very common. For my M4, it's not as low, dont plan on tracking it as much so it just gets full front PPF. My Golf R only got bumper and hood.

Same here, but probably for different reasons. I buy cars new and keep them for 10+ years, to live without payments and not to have high VA property taxes when it has high appraisal value. And the most important reason, I get used to my car. So, obviously, they depreciate to nearly zero with the 200-300K miles on them. Even regular maintenance, repairs and upkeep cannot bring that price up. Maybe the manual transmission adds desirability. Still, there are 60K miles 6MT cars like mine around kept by people who had resale value in mind instead of having fun.

Originally Posted by solstice

Get the sunroof if you can fit and you will use it. All other aspects for or against are bullshit.

Yes, I fit and I do use it. Not being able to open it because it's not there will certainly reduce the fun for me.

Originally Posted by bishop4142

Carbon or metal.... hard to choose so I went with the convertible. 🤔

I've seen them. They look super awesome with the top down.

[TJR_///M3]

There’s a sunroof option for the M3?

[DefiantVitreous]

Originally Posted by Ezra168

I love this discussion!

I am interested….are that many of you custom ordering a car with resale in mind?

I find it amusing for someone with the means to custom order a $100k+ car actually caring that much about resale?

Because why exactly? I find the arrogance of some posters amusing. If you are going to get into a new car in 3-5 years, and you don't really care about a sunroof, why wouldn't resale value be a legit consideration? I'm sorry, I didn't realize that all of us are multimillionaires, that we should all be burning money for no reason. Maybe that is just you tho.

Maybe that's the reason a lot of said multimillionaires in this thread have stated they keep a car for 10+ years until the wheels fall off. You know, because they have so much f-you money, that they love driving around in 10-year-old cars.

[Forzanerazzurri]

Originally Posted by DefiantVitreous

Because why exactly? I find the arrogance of some posters amusing. If you are going to get into a new car in 3-5 years, and you don't really care about a sunroof, why wouldn't resale value be a legit consideration? I'm sorry, I didn't realize that all of us are multimillionaires, that we should all be burning money for no reason. Maybe that is just you tho.

Maybe that's the reason a lot of said multimillionaires in this thread have stated they keep a car for 10+ years until the wheels fall off. You know, because they have so much f-you money, that they love driving around in 10-year-old cars.

I know lots of multi millionaires who drive 10 year old cars. My 20 year old E46 M3 Is better than the G80 in several ways. I don't need to drive a new car to enjoy the drive. I find the guys who blow cash by rolling leases just to drive something new forever amusing (and they are often broke as hell as a result).

[godunovs65]

Originally Posted by TJR_///M3

There’s a sunroof option for the M3?

It may appear shockingly offensive to many, but M3 and even M4 can also be used for daily driving.

Originally Posted by DefiantVitreous

Because why exactly? I find the arrogance of some posters amusing. If you are going to get into a new car in 3-5 years, and you don't really care about a sunroof, why wouldn't resale value be a legit consideration? I'm sorry, I didn't realize that all of us are multimillionaires, that we should all be burning money for no reason. Maybe that is just you tho.

Maybe that's the reason a lot of said multimillionaires in this thread have stated they keep a car for 10+ years until the wheels fall off. You know, because they have so much f-you money, that they love driving around in 10-year-old cars.

Those who buy a new car every 3 years must absolutely care about the resale price. First off, they should lease, unless they drive 50K miles a year and just cannot be left stranded on the side of the road. I know one such person, who does that. He buys a new X5, puts 150K in three years, sells that X5, and gets a new X5, but always either a manager special or the last year model still remaining on the lot. By that time the old X5 has depreciated significantly, even though it's only highway miles. I could not suggest any other solution. Lease mile overage fees will cost like another X5. He must buy every three years.

Originally Posted by Forzanerazzurri

I know lots of multi millionaires who drive 10 year old cars. My 20 year old E46 M3 Is better than the G80 in several ways. I don't need to drive a new car to enjoy the drive. I find the guys who blow cash by rolling leases just to drive something new forever amusing (and they are often broke as hell as a result).

Warren Buffett drives a 2014 Cadillac he bought new at a significant discount due to hail damage. But he's not a multi-millionaire. Maybe it's because he's multi-billionaire.

[Dawgz]

1) Resale value. A lot more folks looking for the CF roof vs a sunroof option

2) All the cars I've owned have had sunroofs, I have never used it. Useless weight.

3) considerable weight savings

4) less worry about blocked drains

5) CF roof looks way better.

[godunovs65]

Originally Posted by Dawgz

1) Resale value. A lot more folks looking for the CF roof vs a sunroof option

2) All the cars I've owned have had sunroofs, I have never used it. Useless weight.

3) considerable weight savings

4) less worry about blocked drains

5) CF roof looks way better.

Thanks for sharing! Agree with the everything and cannot argue with any. Yet #5 is subjective. I don't like the look of unpainted carbon fiber on a passenger car. Otherwise, it looks like "Look! I have some carbon! I'm cool!" Had it been painted, it would've been a much easier choice.