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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions C/D: Our 2020 M340i is a Return to Form (10k mile long term tester update)

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      03-25-2020, 01:28 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel View Post
It's not weight, it's feel. You can't fix that with software. GM and Porsche do it better. If they could do it through software, they would increase feel in Sport mode, but they don't because they can't.
Tbh: I think getting steering feel "right" isn't easy and its a question of personal taste. While sporty drivers rather want/accept a steering, which gives you lots of feedback about surface/tarmac friction coefficient, this at the same time makes steering more unsettled/less smooth. For many (not so sporty/engaged) drivers, this kind of steering rather feels uncomfortable/imperfect!
Car magazine journalists (and car forum enthusiasts) clearly tend to one end of the spectrum ... but I am unsure about the majority of customers?
Yup exactly, I have "new" driver that drive old vehicle and find the steering even "scary" when going through bumps
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      03-25-2020, 02:05 PM   #46
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Tbh: I think getting steering feel "right" isn't easy and its a question of personal taste. While sporty drivers rather want/accept a steering, which gives you lots of feedback about surface/tarmac friction coefficient, this at the same time makes steering more unsettled/less smooth. For many (not so sporty/engaged) drivers, this kind of steering rather feels uncomfortable/imperfect!
Car magazine journalists (and car forum enthusiasts) clearly tend to one end of the spectrum ... but I am unsure about the majority of customers?
Having driven the e46 and multiple e90's, i can assure you that the steering in those cars was never unsettled or less smooth. In fact it was smoother than butter.

It was properly weighted at every speed-incredibly linear, responsive and wheel turns resulted in a very natural and accurate direction change. I think the best word to describe it: Precise.

Not so much anymore. It's really difficult to describe but once you've felt it-it's sorta hard to go back from there.

ANd feedback doesn't necessarily mean feeling bumps and potholes, etc. through the wheel. You'll be amazed how differently a steering wheel with feedback will feel during a high grip vs low grip situation. You know what the car is about to do before it does it and you have time to correct.
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      03-25-2020, 02:55 PM   #47
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We replaced my wife's F30 with a G20 330i M-sport. Certainly a much improved car, but the steering is still pretty uncommunicative and it sounds awful at idle. Interestingly, it is almost exact the same size as my old E39 530i SP/5SP. Now THAT car was the whole package, not blinding fast like the M5, but terrific handling, balanced in every way, and the nicest looking wheels BMW ever offered stock.
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      03-25-2020, 08:35 PM   #48
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Yup. As a previous owner of an E39 M5, I agree while it wasn't the most tactile of steering setups of the time, it was definitely far from being as numb as modern BMW EPS.

Not exactly a great steering benchmark for the G20 to be held to... But it is telling: if it is even worse than the E39 M5's, then damn it must be totally devoid of any feedback whatsoever.
I currently have an E39 M5 and an E36 M3. While the E39 M5 is devoid of feel and feels pretty numb compared to the M3 and my former E90 328, The E39 M5 has significantly more feel than the clinically numb G20.

I've driven the M340 a few times now and while it's a lot better than the F30, it's not good enough for me to pull the trigger on. If they had a manual transmission option, I'd go for it, but no steering feel and auto only is a non starter for me.
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      03-25-2020, 10:12 PM   #49
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I recently drove a low mile E39 M5. It is not the sweetheart you make it out to be. In fact, it feels dated.

If the M340 isn't good enough (lol) for you to pull the trigger, I have to ask....
What car in the same price range would you consider better?
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      03-25-2020, 11:24 PM   #50
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I think compared to my last 2 cars the m340i's steering at least feels weightier. My b9 a4 and f30 328i just felt crazy over boosted.

That said I haven't driven an E46 in a really long time, and my roomate used to have an E34 back in the day. And i'm really not sure it is this crazy huge gulf everyone makes its sound like it is. They are different sure, but the g20 is not bad.
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      03-25-2020, 11:51 PM   #51
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I think compared to my last 2 cars the m340i's steering at least feels weightier. My b9 a4 and f30 328i just felt crazy over boosted.

That said I haven't driven an E46 in a really long time, and my roomate used to have an E34 back in the day. And i'm really not sure it is this crazy huge gulf everyone makes its sound like it is. They are different sure, but the g20 is not bad.
They've definitely increased the weighting of the EPS steering although I find that in some models it doesn't feel very progressive or natural in its building of weight, and sometimes I feel that the sportiest of settings add too much synthetic heft, as BMW seems to associate weight with sportiness, and most of the general public do as well. For example, some of the M cars are honestly best left with their steering in comfort rather than sport or sport plus.

All together, I really think BMW needs to work harder on the steering. A decade later of BMW EPS and while progress has been made, its honestly still not enough. I get making the rack numb on your bread and butter 330i or X3 for the general public, but on the M cars there is zero excuses for numbness. They can't use their typical "but people don't want feel" card on the M cars which are mainly made, advertised and sold to enthusiasts who like steering feedback. I mean, there's a list of cars and manufacturers that I can think of off the top of my head that I have driven and have better steering feel than most new BMW's, and these range from Mazda's and Honda's to Cadillac's and even Mercedes, to of course Porsche and Alfa who have some of the best.
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      03-26-2020, 02:33 AM   #52
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You work at BMW of Fairfax and drives an S5 where do you park it @work do they ask you to hide it since it's not sending a good message to clients
I left BMW of Fairfax about three year ago. I've messaged the admins about a name change like six times but nobody ever gets back to me. :/
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      03-26-2020, 02:34 AM   #53
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Mine uses an extra liter every 20,000 km, less than half of what C&D's M340i is using.
To be honest, It lasts me enough between oil changes that I never have to top it off. The cars computer reads about half before I get to my oil change.
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      03-26-2020, 02:35 AM   #54
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You work at BMW of Fairfax and drives an S5 where do you park it @work do they ask you to hide it since it's not sending a good message to clients
I left BMW of Fairfax about three year ago. I've messaged the admins about a name change like six times but nobody ever gets back to me. :/
Now I know where you work
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      03-26-2020, 03:35 AM   #55
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Now I know where you work
Lol, I left the automotive industy.
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      03-26-2020, 12:40 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by NewM3driver View Post
I recently drove a low mile E39 M5. It is not the sweetheart you make it out to be. In fact, it feels dated.

If the M340 isn't good enough (lol) for you to pull the trigger, I have to ask....
What car in the same price range would you consider better?
M2 Competition.

The M340 has a great chassis and a great interior, but if I'm going to be forced to give up a manual transmission, I at least want decent steering feel. With the M2 Comp at least I can get the 6mt.

I am very interested in the new M3/4, but if it looks anything like the concept, styling kills it.

I'll argue that the E39 doesn't feel dated if the suspension is in good shape. Even low mileage E39 M5s can feel dated because the bushings and stuff wear pretty quickly on them. They're basically completely shot at 80k miles max. Even at lower mileage, there is play in a lot of the components because of the age of the rubber. If you drive one that has had the shocks replaced along with all control arm/suspension parts and steering center link, it feels far from dated. Given the current BMW lineup, I'd rather spend a few thousand every 80k miles to refresh the suspension on the M5 than to buy anything new unless the new M3/M4 has a smaller grill than what we've been seeing.

From a tech perspective, yeah the E39 M5 nav system sucks, but there's a bluebus adapter shipping now that basically gives full bluetooth control with the steering wheel controls and stock mic and bluetooth audio with excellent quality and all controlled through the stock nav so nothing looks aftermarket. For $50 worth of parts and about an hour of work you can add wireless charging so the only features my E39 is missing that my G30has are the heads up display, traffic updates, and comfort access. Of those, I think I miss the Heads Up Display the most...really amazing feature.

I'm also not a huge fan of the sound of the M340 or the M2 comp, but that has been beaten to death and I won't go there.

Last edited by wknddrivr; 03-26-2020 at 12:49 PM..
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      03-27-2020, 06:21 AM   #57
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Well you basically don't like how turbo sound? Thought B58 is at least the ones that sound better
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      03-27-2020, 07:24 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax View Post
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Originally Posted by psuibmw View Post
You work at BMW of Fairfax and drives an S5 where do you park it @work do they ask you to hide it since it's not sending a good message to clients
I left BMW of Fairfax about three year ago. I've messaged the admins about a name change like six times but nobody ever gets back to me. :/
Were you at BMW of sterling prior to Fairfax?
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      03-27-2020, 08:15 AM   #59
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Were you at BMW of sterling prior to Fairfax?
No. I was at BMW of Silver Spring.
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      03-27-2020, 08:30 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by wknddrivr View Post
M2 Competition.

The M340 has a great chassis and a great interior, but if I'm going to be forced to give up a manual transmission, I at least want decent steering feel. With the M2 Comp at least I can get the 6mt.

I am very interested in the new M3/4, but if it looks anything like the concept, styling kills it.

I'll argue that the E39 doesn't feel dated if the suspension is in good shape. Even low mileage E39 M5s can feel dated because the bushings and stuff wear pretty quickly on them. They're basically completely shot at 80k miles max. Even at lower mileage, there is play in a lot of the components because of the age of the rubber. If you drive one that has had the shocks replaced along with all control arm/suspension parts and steering center link, it feels far from dated. Given the current BMW lineup, I'd rather spend a few thousand every 80k miles to refresh the suspension on the M5 than to buy anything new unless the new M3/M4 has a smaller grill than what we've been seeing.

From a tech perspective, yeah the E39 M5 nav system sucks, but there's a bluebus adapter shipping now that basically gives full bluetooth control with the steering wheel controls and stock mic and bluetooth audio with excellent quality and all controlled through the stock nav so nothing looks aftermarket. For $50 worth of parts and about an hour of work you can add wireless charging so the only features my E39 is missing that my G30has are the heads up display, traffic updates, and comfort access. Of those, I think I miss the Heads Up Display the most...really amazing feature.

I'm also not a huge fan of the sound of the M340 or the M2 comp, but that has been beaten to death and I won't go there.
Saying you are now moving to an M2 competition and away from sedans, well, I rest my case. There is no better contemporary sports sedan on the market than the M340.

If you are going to give up the utility and comfort of a proper sedan, why not get into the Porsche Cayman GT4? The manual transmission in the Porsche embarrasses the M2 manual, and the car weighs just 2900 pounds. With the engine behind you that car is in a completely different world than the M2.

Price is close too. Drive one and let me know your thoughts.
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      03-27-2020, 08:39 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by NewM3driver View Post
If you are going to give up the utility and comfort of a proper sedan, why not get into the Porsche Cayman GT4? The manual transmission in the Porsche embarrasses the M2 manual, and the car weighs just 2900 pounds. With the engine behind you that car is in a completely different world than the M2.

Price is close too. Drive one and let me know your thoughts.
I'm assuming you're talking about the base Cayman and not the GT4. The GT4 is a $100k car.
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      03-27-2020, 08:59 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wknddrivr View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewM3driver View Post
I recently drove a low mile E39 M5. It is not the sweetheart you make it out to be. In fact, it feels dated.

If the M340 isn't good enough (lol) for you to pull the trigger, I have to ask....
What car in the same price range would you consider better?
M2 Competition.

The M340 has a great chassis and a great interior, but if I'm going to be forced to give up a manual transmission, I at least want decent steering feel. With the M2 Comp at least I can get the 6mt.

I am very interested in the new M3/4, but if it looks anything like the concept, styling kills it.

I'll argue that the E39 doesn't feel dated if the suspension is in good shape. Even low mileage E39 M5s can feel dated because the bushings and stuff wear pretty quickly on them. They're basically completely shot at 80k miles max. Even at lower mileage, there is play in a lot of the components because of the age of the rubber. If you drive one that has had the shocks replaced along with all control arm/suspension parts and steering center link, it feels far from dated. Given the current BMW lineup, I'd rather spend a few thousand every 80k miles to refresh the suspension on the M5 than to buy anything new unless the new M3/M4 has a smaller grill than what we've been seeing.

From a tech perspective, yeah the E39 M5 nav system sucks, but there's a bluebus adapter shipping now that basically gives full bluetooth control with the steering wheel controls and stock mic and bluetooth audio with excellent quality and all controlled through the stock nav so nothing looks aftermarket. For $50 worth of parts and about an hour of work you can add wireless charging so the only features my E39 is missing that my G30has are the heads up display, traffic updates, and comfort access. Of those, I think I miss the Heads Up Display the most...really amazing feature.

I'm also not a huge fan of the sound of the M340 or the M2 comp, but that has been beaten to death and I won't go there.
M340 sounds good? Not sure many would agree w that statement
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      03-27-2020, 09:00 AM   #63
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Agree w your statement it doesn't sound good I mean
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      03-27-2020, 09:42 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewM3driver View Post
Saying you are now moving to an M2 competition and away from sedans, well, I rest my case. There is no better contemporary sports sedan on the market than the M340.

If you are going to give up the utility and comfort of a proper sedan, why not get into the Porsche Cayman GT4? The manual transmission in the Porsche embarrasses the M2 manual, and the car weighs just 2900 pounds. With the engine behind you that car is in a completely different world than the M2.

Price is close too. Drive one and let me know your thoughts.
Not disagreeing with you here- I agree that the G20 340i is prob the best car you can buy for the money right but I don't know if i would call it a "sports sedan."

I think that phrase has been highly diluted over the years. Yes, the car is blazingly fast. But, the 340i's massive size and weight along with it's novacaine numb steering puts in the "sporty" luxury car category IMHO.

Haven't seen a proper "sports sedan" since the 4 door e36 M3. THere- i said it!
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      03-27-2020, 10:34 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinewhite3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewM3driver View Post
Saying you are now moving to an M2 competition and away from sedans, well, I rest my case. There is no better contemporary sports sedan on the market than the M340.

If you are going to give up the utility and comfort of a proper sedan, why not get into the Porsche Cayman GT4? The manual transmission in the Porsche embarrasses the M2 manual, and the car weighs just 2900 pounds. With the engine behind you that car is in a completely different world than the M2.

Price is close too. Drive one and let me know your thoughts.
Not disagreeing with you here- I agree that the G20 340i is prob the best car you can buy for the money right but I don't know if i would call it a "sports sedan."

I think that phrase has been highly diluted over the years. Yes, the car is blazingly fast. But, the 340i's massive size and weight along with it's novacaine numb steering puts in the "sporty" luxury car category IMHO.

Haven't seen a proper "sports sedan" since the 4 door e36 M3. THere- i said it!
So a "Proper" sports sedan should have a jarring/crashy suspension setup plus stiff/heavy steering?
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      03-27-2020, 10:53 AM   #66
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So a "Proper" sports sedan should have a jarring/crashy suspension setup plus stiff/heavy steering?
Don't forget RWD only with, at the very least, an available manual trans
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