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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions C/D: Our 2020 M340i is a Return to Form (10k mile long term tester update)

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      03-24-2020, 03:34 PM   #23
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My n55 doesn't use ANY oil after 6k and shes modded.😎
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      03-24-2020, 03:37 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GodfatherNiko View Post
Everyone fawning over the E39 M5's steering seems to forget it was a recirculating ball setup. A setup others were criticized for using, due to already being outdated in the late 80's and early 90's.
I test drove a few E39 M5s last year because i was in the market. While it doesn't compare to other BMWs of that era and even up to the E90/E60, it is still better than the modern F/G body BMWs.
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      03-24-2020, 03:39 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
Nothing that a firmware update couldn't fix..
It's not weight, it's feel. You can't fix that with software. GM and Porsche do it better. If they could do it through software, they would increase feel in Sport mode, but they don't because they can't.
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      03-24-2020, 04:01 PM   #26
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I have almost 16k miles on my car, always in sport mode and driving it very spirited. Outside of the normal service somewhere around 8k, I have not had to add any oil. My N/S63 vehicles, always had some oil around as they wouldn't make a 10k service without adding oil.

These guys must really be ragging this 340 out!
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      03-24-2020, 04:27 PM   #27
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I had 3k no oil issue but had to add coolant 3k...

Had dealer put the car on lift overnight (3k one year so was also the time to do oil change any way). nothing came back, still troubling though... their answer went from it past the test/no leakage/maybe it wasn't fully filled at factory

In any case will check again at 2nd oil change, hopefully the coolant thing doesn't come up again
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      03-24-2020, 05:06 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
And the E39 530 and 540 had a rack and pinion setup. The irony!
The E39 with I6 (528i, 530i) had R&P steering while the V8's (540i, M5) had recirculating ball...as I recall something to do with packaging or space constraints in the front subframe due to the size of the engine. My 2 E39 528i's had good steering, but nothing like my E46 ZHP after them.
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      03-24-2020, 06:05 PM   #29
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This car is objectively very good if not excellent in some areas, but I found it quite boring to drive. It's like a fast limo. The steering is responsive but utterly devoid of any road feedback or resistance on turn. They added some artificial weight for the sake of adding heft but it feels like a video game. This combined with the sheer massive size of it relegates it off my buying list.

Basically this car has little in common with the last great 3-series, the E90.

I maintain that the M2 is the only BMW that still drives like a BMW. The steering is the weak point but it's still better than any othe EPS rack I've driven.
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      03-25-2020, 12:18 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
And the E39 530 and 540 had a rack and pinion setup. The irony!
While the e39 530i had a R&P setup, the 540i had a recirculating ball setup. The 540i was much criticized for the steering choice (mainly due to space constants).


Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinewhite3 View Post
Prob compared it to the e39 M5 b/c of the size of the G20? Doesn't really compare well with the e46 and e90 anymore.

Regardless, ditto on the steering. In 10k miles i went from it's decent -> it's adequate -> it's okay -> meh.

Things could be worse- Is anyone on here old enough to remember when BMW majorly F*cked up the steering on some 2001 E46 models? After MASSIVE backlash they corrected it very quickly. I got stuck with one of these cars and had to trade it in for an '02 model. Wish they still listened to feedback.
I can see your logic... and feel the same way about the steering setup in all F- and G-code BMWs, including in my g30.

Interestingly, my very first BMW was a 2001 e46 325i, and I remember some early production cycles had a light/boosted feel, but they corrected by the time I took delivery of my car (2001 May build) in Munich before they finished construction of Welt.


Quote:
Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel View Post
It's not weight, it's feel. You can't fix that with software. GM and Porsche do it better. If they could do it through software, they would increase feel in Sport mode, but they don't because they can't.
You may very well be right here, but pretty much every car these days, including Porsche, has a steering-by-wire electronic setup. I think tuning the electronic feedback probably can improve the feel, which I assume can be done via SW. I think it's just that BMW is either not prioritizing it enough, or comfort is now the overriding characteristic over all else at BMW.
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      03-25-2020, 12:31 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
This car is objectively very good if not excellent in some areas, but I found it quite boring to drive. It's like a fast limo. The steering is responsive but utterly devoid of any road feedback or resistance on turn. They added some artificial weight for the sake of adding heft but it feels like a video game. This combined with the sheer massive size of it relegates it off my buying list.

Basically this car has little in common with the last great 3-series, the E90.

I maintain that the M2 is the only BMW that still drives like a BMW. The steering is the weak point but it's still better than any othe EPS rack I've driven.
Couldn’t agree more although I don’t even find the steering to be “responsive” I wish we could have some kind of feedback. I have absolutely no clue what my front wheels are up to.

That all aside, even if they had decided to copy the widely praised 2 series EPS programming and use it for the G20 - this car is still huge and you absolutely feel it. Last 3 series for me. Most BMW buyers will be satisfied to highly satisfied with this car though.
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      03-25-2020, 12:42 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpinewhite3 View Post
Was that the notorious A4 4 cylinder oil consumption debacle? I remember, had to put a quart in every 800 miles!

I lobbied hard to Audi NA and did qualify for the piston ring replacement and it was fine after that. Sold the car pretty quickly after that though.
Yeah that one. I never got it replaced, I used to drive a lot, and ended up driving 48k miles in 3 years and just sold the car for an F30.

I did just get rid of a B9 2017 A4 though and it also burned a little oil, but more like a quart every 10k.
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      03-25-2020, 01:58 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel View Post
It's not weight, it's feel. You can't fix that with software. GM and Porsche do it better. If they could do it through software, they would increase feel in Sport mode, but they don't because they can't.
Tbh: I think getting steering feel "right" isn't easy and its a question of personal taste. While sporty drivers rather want/accept a steering, which gives you lots of feedback about surface/tarmac friction coefficient, this at the same time makes steering more unsettled/less smooth. For many (not so sporty/engaged) drivers, this kind of steering rather feels uncomfortable/imperfect!
Car magazine journalists (and car forum enthusiasts) clearly tend to one end of the spectrum ... but I am unsure about the majority of customers?
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      03-25-2020, 03:15 AM   #34
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My S5 is burning oil too. Not enough for me to have to top it off though.
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      03-25-2020, 06:11 AM   #35
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My S5 is burning oil too. Not enough for me to have to top it off though.
You work at BMW of Fairfax and drives an S5 where do you park it @work do they ask you to hide it since it's not sending a good message to clients
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      03-25-2020, 06:48 AM   #36
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Clearly steering of modern BMWs is harshly criticized. I don't race cars, but I do enjoy swinging through twisties on back roads. I drive around 40k miles a year and a good portion of that is back road fun. I don't find the steering to negatively affect performance in this respect. Is this a thing that is just a preference, or does the "feel" and road surface "feedback" to the steering wheel really inform a driver in a way that allows them to take a corner faster? Is it the weight on the wheel that builds progressively the harder you go that people desire? Admittedly, I don't drive a lot of sports oriented cars, so I just may not have the experience to understand it.
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      03-25-2020, 07:13 AM   #37
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oh gee...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax View Post
My S5 is burning oil too. Not enough for me to have to top it off though.
Mine uses an extra liter every 20,000 km, less than half of what C&D's M340i is using.
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      03-25-2020, 07:23 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma01 View Post
You may very well be right here, but pretty much every car these days, including Porsche, has a steering-by-wire electronic setup. I think tuning the electronic feedback probably can improve the feel, which I assume can be done via SW. I think it's just that BMW is either not prioritizing it enough, or comfort is now the overriding characteristic over all else at BMW.
This is not true. Most cars use an electrically boosted rack-pinion setup. Porsche and BMW have no cars in their lineup that use steer-by-wire. In fact extremely few cars in general actually use steer-by-wire setups.
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      03-25-2020, 08:01 AM   #39
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The guys reviewing must b benz owners.. or worse vw .. Esteban
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      03-25-2020, 09:11 AM   #40
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I've never added a drop of oil to my Bimmers (other than what shops and dealerships added for maintenance). Now I feel like I've done something wrong lol
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      03-25-2020, 09:14 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtwo3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma01 View Post
You may very well be right here, but pretty much every car these days, including Porsche, has a steering-by-wire electronic setup. I think tuning the electronic feedback probably can improve the feel, which I assume can be done via SW. I think it's just that BMW is either not prioritizing it enough, or comfort is now the overriding characteristic over all else at BMW.
This is not true. Most cars use an electrically boosted rack-pinion setup. Porsche and BMW have no cars in their lineup that use steer-by-wire. In fact extremely few cars in general actually use steer-by-wire setups.
Infiniti Q50 sedan comes to mind.
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      03-25-2020, 09:19 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
And the E39 530 and 540 had a rack and pinion setup. The irony!
Pretty sure the 6 cylinder cars had rack and pinion and the 8 cylinder cars had recirculating ball.

The 530 sport with a the manual tranny was a very well balanced car.
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      03-25-2020, 09:20 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
Infiniti Q50 sedan comes to mind.
Yup... and that's about the only car that comes to mind

My last car was actually a Q50 and had steer-by-wire. After all the negative feedback, steer-by-wire did not find its way into very many cars, and the vast majority of modern cars still utilize rack & pinion setup, albeit electronically boosted.
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      03-25-2020, 01:15 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 530iDriver View Post
And the E39 530 and 540 had a rack and pinion setup. The irony!
Because engineers couldn't package rack and pinion setup with the V8 engine.
Only 530i and 525i had R&P setup.
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