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View Poll Results: My choice for a G8X M3/M4 alternative will be a:
Mercedes 56 9.82%
Porsche 267 46.84%
Audi 42 7.37%
Tesla 40 7.02%
Chevrolet Corvette C8 53 9.30%
Other 91 15.96%
A different BMW 21 3.68%
Voters: 570. You may not vote on this poll

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      01-21-2020, 05:04 PM   #155
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Honestly, the new 718 GTS 4.0 models are a shit hot alternative if you can live with a two seater. Pretty banging car for the money and comes loaded w many goods as standards ... just read about em over the weekend.
That will be a great car. Hell it may not depreciate...
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      01-22-2020, 08:26 PM   #156
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There is another sedan option on it's way. Cadillac
If it was a Wagon, I would consider it, not sure if a manual will be available, but it is kind of a beast.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...socialflowTWCD
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      01-22-2020, 08:40 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
There is another sedan option on it's way. Cadillac
If it was a Wagon, I would consider it, not sure if a manual will be available, but it is kind of a beast.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...socialflowTWCD
And to think the ugly CT5 was based off the rather good looking Escala concept. Cadillac just can't do anything right when it comes to design and luxury these days. The chassis and powertrain tuning are excellent, honestly even better than the Germans in some cases, but when it comes to the full package they just mess it up. I honestly loved the old CTS-V's exterior, driving dynamics and powertrain, the interior however was very behind its rivals.
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      01-22-2020, 09:34 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by OUGrad05 View Post
That will be a great car. Hell it may not depreciate...
It will depreciate as it will be a regular production vehicle. Like all Caymans it will be underpowered.
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      01-22-2020, 09:36 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by OF Hero View Post
Nailed it.

The DCT is so much fun, I will miss it.

I could roll with 6MT this time around but in my climate, I would prefer to have AWD even tho I always use winters regardless of drivetrain.
No DCT won't be good.
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      01-22-2020, 10:15 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by Hegge View Post
No DCT won't be good.
Wonder what they're going to put in the M4 GT3?

I can't believe it's going to be the same transmission they put in the X3M Comp - no racing driver would put up with that. Even the modified ZF8 auto box from the M335ir didn't stop them dropping it for an M2 Comp with a DCT.
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      01-22-2020, 11:12 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
There is another sedan option on it's way. Cadillac
If it was a Wagon, I would consider it, not sure if a manual will be available, but it is kind of a beast.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...socialflowTWCD
Definitely worth a look... AWD with RWD mode would be awesome too... great launches and also better in sketchy weather. Agree with the other guy above about the Cadillac not being a good complete package but it's still got a lot to offer and for significantly less than E63 or M5. Pay less, get less. CTSV would be an amazing deal for like $75k but seems like they've priced themselves higher and higher making the M5 the winner and probably the best value of all the super sedans.
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      01-23-2020, 09:37 AM   #162
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Wonder what they're going to put in the M4 GT3?
It will be a sequential manual racing transmission like every other BMW GT3 race car, and as far as I know, every other competition GT3 vehicle from any manufacturer as well.

Quote:
I can't believe it's going to be the same transmission they put in the X3M Comp - no racing driver would put up with that.
BMW's future race cars in the GT4 class and below are highly likely to use the ZF8.

Quote:
Even the modified ZF8 auto box from the M335ir didn't stop them dropping it for an M2 Comp with a DCT.
They switched from the M240i to the M2, and the factory transmission came along for the ride. It was that simple.

We can expect the G87 M2 to switch to a ZF8. Therefore, a future M2 Racing based on that car (assuming there is one, which I'd say is reasonably likely) would with near certainty use the ZF8 as well.
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      01-23-2020, 10:11 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
It will be a sequential manual racing transmission like every other BMW GT3 race car, and as far as I know, every other competition GT3 vehicle from any manufacturer as well.



BMW's future race cars in the GT4 class and below are highly likely to use the ZF8.



They switched from the M240i to the M2, and the factory transmission came along for the ride. It was that simple.

We can expect the G87 M2 to switch to a ZF8. Therefore, a future M2 Racing based on that car (assuming there is one, which I'd say is reasonably likely) would with near certainty use the ZF8 as well.
Thanks for the info.... though I *really* hope that these predictions are wrong.
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      01-23-2020, 11:25 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evanescent03 View Post
Definitely worth a look... AWD with RWD mode would be awesome too... great launches and also better in sketchy weather. Agree with the other guy above about the Cadillac not being a good complete package but it's still got a lot to offer and for significantly less than E63 or M5. Pay less, get less. CTSV would be an amazing deal for like $75k but seems like they've priced themselves higher and higher making the M5 the winner and probably the best value of all the super sedans.
Read on Autoblog that it will be an automatic, so no interest. The HP wars are eliminating the most important option in my buying decision. The latest Vantage that detuned the engine to allow for a manual, will hopefully be a trend, but 4doors and a stick is getting hard to find.
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      01-23-2020, 12:25 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by evanescent03 View Post
Definitely worth a look... AWD with RWD mode would be awesome too... great launches and also better in sketchy weather. Agree with the other guy above about the Cadillac not being a good complete package but it's still got a lot to offer and for significantly less than E63 or M5. Pay less, get less. CTSV would be an amazing deal for like $75k but seems like they've priced themselves higher and higher making the M5 the winner and probably the best value of all the super sedans.
Read on Autoblog that it will be an automatic, so no interest. The HP wars are eliminating the most important option in my buying decision. The latest Vantage that detuned the engine to allow for a manual, will hopefully be a trend, but 4doors and a stick is getting hard to find.
I think the horsepower wars in general is ruining cars. Too many cars care about speed and 0-60 times over driver involvement and engagement. There's a reason why cars like Miata's and BRZ's are still so fun despite their low power outputs. The M5 is kind of turning into a numb rocket because of that, but thats just my opinion.

The M2C is probably the most amount of power I'd want for a RWD chassis (although I was fine with the non-comp's power too), otherwise it becomes too powerful and hard to control and can even ruin the manual transmission experience because it can't handle the power similar to the F10 M5.
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      01-23-2020, 12:49 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by evanescent03 View Post
Definitely worth a look... AWD with RWD mode would be awesome too... great launches and also better in sketchy weather. Agree with the other guy above about the Cadillac not being a good complete package but it's still got a lot to offer and for significantly less than E63 or M5. Pay less, get less. CTSV would be an amazing deal for like $75k but seems like they've priced themselves higher and higher making the M5 the winner and probably the best value of all the super sedans.
Read on Autoblog that it will be an automatic, so no interest. The HP wars are eliminating the most important option in my buying decision. The latest Vantage that detuned the engine to allow for a manual, will hopefully be a trend, but 4doors and a stick is getting hard to find.
I think the horsepower wars in general is ruining cars. Too many cars care about speed and 0-60 times over driver involvement and engagement. There's a reason why cars like Miata's and BRZ's are still so fun despite their low power outputs. The M5 is kind of turning into a numb rocket because of that, but thats just my opinion.

The M2C is probably the most amount of power I'd want for a RWD chassis (although I was fine with the non-comp's power too), otherwise it becomes too powerful and hard to control and can even ruin the manual transmission experience because it can't handle the power similar to the F10 M5.
Blame the enthusiast community for the perceived horsepower wars.
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      01-23-2020, 12:49 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmrm396 View Post
Honestly, the new 718 GTS 4.0 models are a shit hot alternative if you can live with a two seater. Pretty banging car for the money and comes loaded w many goods as standards ... just read about em over the weekend.

Agreed! The small car enthusiast space is pretty amazing right now.

But, the practical 3pedal, sedan/wagon space has few options. As much as I have tried I just do not like sporty SUV's my wife has one and I never want to drive it. My kids ask why I hate Mom's car?
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      01-23-2020, 01:34 PM   #168
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Blame the enthusiast community for the perceived horsepower wars.
Possibly....but the enthusiast community is buying up older cars at the moment, IMO. I entertained buying a 964/993 911 and was absolutely shocked at the asking prices and how quickly one had to act or the car was sold. Even a 997.1 GT3 or 997.2 GTS.

I had to pay a good sum for my 1M and even though posters on here claim they are easy to find. I assure you they are not, it is hard to find the car you want and can take a good amount of time. The search for an analogue experience is getting expensive, IMO.

This is a fascinating conversation between Chris Harris and Harry Metcalfe the founder of Evo magazine about the press's role in making cars too fast and less engaging. I still love modern cars if they have a good manual gearbox, but it is interesting to hear their opinion on the matter. At 50mins-30seconds

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      01-23-2020, 01:38 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Blame the enthusiast community for the perceived horsepower wars.
Possibly....but the enthusiast community is buying up older cars at the moment, IMO. I entertained buying a 964/993 911 and was absolutely shocked at the asking prices and how quickly one had to act or the car was sold. Even a 997.1 GT3 or 997.2 GTS.

I had to pay a good sum for my 1M and even though posters on here claim they are easy to find. I assure you they are not, it is hard to find the car you want and can take a good amount of time. The search for an analogue experience is getting expensive, IMO.

This is a fascinating conversation between Chris Harris and Harry Metcalfe the founder of Evo magazine about the press's role in making cars too fast and less engaging. I still love modern cars if they have a good manual gearbox, but it is interesting to hear their opinion on the matter.

Give the community more horsepower and they'll complain. Give them less, and they'll complain as well. Give them analog and they'll complain. Give them less, and they'll complain as well. It's cyclical. Of course I'm generalizing, but all it takes is to read through the threads over the years to find examples of what I'm referring to.
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      01-23-2020, 01:57 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
There is another sedan option on it's way. Cadillac
If it was a Wagon, I would consider it, not sure if a manual will be available, but it is kind of a beast.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...socialflowTWCD
Did you actually read the article? This "new" car is going with the same old engine of its predecessor CTS-V instead of the Blackwing V-8 people were hoping for. This is not exactly good news. It further goes on to say the upcoming CT4-V will be going with the same engine as it's predecessor ATS-V.

The old ones didn't sell, so not sure how they expect their fortunes will change by rebadging them and putting on different lipstick?
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      01-23-2020, 02:11 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacoma View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
There is another sedan option on it's way. Cadillac
If it was a Wagon, I would consider it, not sure if a manual will be available, but it is kind of a beast.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...socialflowTWCD
Did you actually read the article? This "new" car is going with the same old engine of its predecessor CTS-V instead of the Blackwing V-8 people were hoping for. This is not exactly good news. It further goes on to say the upcoming CT4-V will be going with the same engine as it's predecessor ATS-V.

The old ones didn't sell, so not sure how they expect their fortunes will change by rebadging them and putting on different lipstick?
Cadillac is destined to fail, even if they used the Blackwing, sales would probably stay lackluster. While I'm disappointed that the new engines won't be coming, I will say the LT2 engine (6.2L SC V8 from the Vette) is a very nice engine and has some advantages over the Blackwing (higher redline, supercharger vs turbo, etc.), and Cadillac does have great chassis tuning, they just don't have the badge cache, design, or luxury/complete package they use to.

Cadillac's, other than the Escalade, aren't cool anymore to the general public and just lack in appeal. Even worse for Cadillac is that Lincoln is making a comeback and taking Cadillac's old position as the "Good Ol' American Luxury" manufacturer, while completely rebranding everything and going back to actual vehicle names (a strategy Cadillac will apparently adapt soon despite just changing the entire mode structure) while Cadillac uses the same strategy (although rebranded for the third time) of chasing the Germans that has been failing them for almost two decades.

Cadillac is pretty much down in the dumps in the luxury world with Infiniti, and Acura (although based on the RDX, the next TLX and MDX could make a comeback).
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      01-23-2020, 09:19 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by evanescent03 View Post
Definitely worth a look... AWD with RWD mode would be awesome too... great launches and also better in sketchy weather. Agree with the other guy above about the Cadillac not being a good complete package but it's still got a lot to offer and for significantly less than E63 or M5. Pay less, get less. CTSV would be an amazing deal for like $75k but seems like they've priced themselves higher and higher making the M5 the winner and probably the best value of all the super sedans.
Read on Autoblog that it will be an automatic, so no interest. The HP wars are eliminating the most important option in my buying decision. The latest Vantage that detuned the engine to allow for a manual, will hopefully be a trend, but 4doors and a stick is getting hard to find.
I think the horsepower wars in general is ruining cars. Too many cars care about speed and 0-60 times over driver involvement and engagement. There's a reason why cars like Miata's and BRZ's are still so fun despite their low power outputs. The M5 is kind of turning into a numb rocket because of that, but thats just my opinion.

The M2C is probably the most amount of power I'd want for a RWD chassis (although I was fine with the non-comp's power too), otherwise it becomes too powerful and hard to control and can even ruin the manual transmission experience because it can't handle the power similar to the F10 M5.
My camaro SS 1LE is such a great car.... handles the 455hp really well. I was literally starting the paperwork on a ZL1 when I backed out and went for the SS. As cool as that extra HP is, you cannot push the thing without going wayyyyy too fast (instead of just wayyy too fast). Same "issue" with the M6 GC CP I had. Lovely inside and out ... rocket ship... but all I ever wanted to do was go 140 in it which is not a good habit. The 455hp, RWD, manual is a near perfect recipe... if only I could see out of the darn thing and get labeled trailer park trash by driving it lol.
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      01-24-2020, 11:24 AM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
The M2C is probably the most amount of power I'd want for a RWD chassis (although I was fine with the non-comp's power too), otherwise it becomes too powerful and hard to control and can even ruin the manual transmission experience because it can't handle the power similar to the F10 M5.
I have zero problem with my M3 Competition, it puts its power down without any problem on a dry surface. I think it would be fine with 550 hp, too.
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      01-24-2020, 04:27 PM   #174
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I have zero problem with my M3 Competition, it puts its power down without any problem on a dry surface. I think it would be fine with 550 hp, too.
Yeah, the throttle is not an on/off switch and the extra HP is handy in higher gears. The problem is not high hp numbers in itself, more is always a good thing as long as it’s not at the expense of low weight, chassis & steering feedback etc.

If you want a 911 GT3 with lowered hp raise your hand...didn’t think so
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      01-26-2020, 06:27 PM   #175
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Looks like the CT5 or CT4 Flagship models (still don't know the official name) could be a considerable alternative. According to reports both the CT4 with the 3.6TT V6 and CT5 with the 6.2SC V8 will be receiving manual transmissions!


https://www.motor1.com/news/394841/c...nsmission/amp/
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      01-27-2020, 02:24 PM   #176
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I still love the GTR and don't really need to see a change in its iconic look. Don't want a huge change in the 911 looks either but that could be because of my advanced age
GTR has definitely a new price 160K. WTF.
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