[IK6SPEED]

Originally Posted by hans007

Actually 28.3%

4548 / (4548 + 11509) = 28.3%

Also, I'd guess the number fell in the later model years, and I'd imagine 2018's numbers matter more to BMW than 2014's.

Lesson learned. Don't do math after midnight.

[N & M]

Not a surprise considering that BMW just had a tough shareholder meeting with the lower profits. The causalities almost always are the “fun” or non money making projects.

I would speculate that the manual, pure might be history.

[Art__Vandelay]

Manual transmission is obviously a NA thing. Almost 90% of all manual M3s were sold in the USA and Canada.

[IK6SPEED]

Originally Posted by N & M

Not a surprise considering that BMW just had a tough shareholder meeting with the lower profits. The causalities almost always are the "fun" or non money making projects.

I would speculate that the manual, pure might be history.

With a 50% elimination in drivetrains, yep. A recent Bloomberg article spelled it out:

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2...erman-engines/

"In just a few years BMW will sell a dozen battery-powered models. The transition is already proving painful and expensive. Last month, expecting a 10 percent slump in profit this year, the company said it would begin a 12 billion-euro efficiency campaign to pay for this battery-focused revamp. Starting in 2021, meanwhile, BMW plans to eliminate up to 50 percent of drivetrain options. About a third of its 133,000-strong workforce has been trained to handle production of electric vehicles—and it's clear that all of today's employees won't be necessary for tomorrow's tasks."

[Poochie]

Seems like the going trend; BMW increased the power output in all their new motor/models and touted it as an advantage but forgo mentioning that the power advantage was offset by added weight..

Sneaky mo-fos.

M340i Weight Increase https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1599263

[Ghostriderf80]

Once I went DCT there was no going back.

Just my opinion.

[doccyber]

BMW learning from Porsche. Nickel and Dime the customer.

[10"]

Originally Posted by miked1999

At the end of the day, the laws of demand elasticity still rule and I suspect M's pricing strategy will be heavily informed by Stuttgart's approach to the 911. Although BMW might have some room to float on price, they'll still need to maintain a delta between an M3/4 and the Carrera. If the G80 price point floats parallel to a Carrera...would you trade up to the Porsche?

Hate to burst your bubble but Porsche totally dedicate themselves to pleasing their enthusiast buying base——BMW do not. Look at the posts here? Satisfied with automatic torque converter gearboxes, AWD, electric blah blah.

Not only has BMW changed but its audience has changed. Its no longer a company concerned with enthusiast cars just like its new customers don't care either.

RIP.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by IK6SPEED

With a 50% elimination in drivetrains, yep. A recent Bloomberg article spelled it out:

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2...erman-engines/

"In just a few years BMW will sell a dozen battery-powered models. The transition is already proving painful and expensive. Last month, expecting a 10 percent slump in profit this year, the company said it would begin a 12 billion-euro efficiency campaign to pay for this battery-focused revamp. Starting in 2021, meanwhile, BMW plans to eliminate up to 50 percent of drivetrain options. About a third of its 133,000-strong workforce has been trained to handle production of electric vehicles—and it's clear that all of today's employees won't be necessary for tomorrow's tasks."

This. Somehow the fact that battery powered models are absorbing a great amount of the company's resources doesn't appear to be sinking in. THIS IS WHERE THE R&D IS GOING. Perhaps vocalizing efforts against this insanity is better spent than narrowly petitioning for a clutch pedal.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by 10"

Hate to burst your bubble but Porsche totally dedicate themselves to pleasing their enthusiast buying base——BMW do not. Look at the posts here? Satisfied with automatic torque converter gearboxes, AWD, electric blah blah.

Not only has BMW changed but its audience has changed. Its no longer a company concerned with enthusiast cars just like its new customers don't care either.

RIP.

Can you say German Toyota

[PackPride85]

Originally Posted by 10"

Hate to burst your bubble but Porsche totally dedicate themselves to pleasing their enthusiast buying base——BMW do not. Look at the posts here? Satisfied with automatic torque converter gearboxes, AWD, electric blah blah.

Not only has BMW changed but its audience has changed. Its no longer a company concerned with enthusiast cars just like its new customers don't care either.

RIP.

You're also paying a premium for them to keep that enthusiast base. What's the average selling price of a Porsche vs BMW? (hint: Porsche is much higher) Porsche profit margins are much higher as well.

BMW, like Audi, is a volume luxury car manufacturer.

[mvigod]

I look forward to the AWD M3/4.

Also would never own a manual transmission again. My first M3 was manual. I do not miss it one bit.

Ok BMW build the M3 competition and take my $$$$$$$$

[MrMoo]

Almost everyone here complaining about manual is driving a turbocharged engine.... Where are the Naturally aspirated drivers at. O right they got killed off just like the manual drivers.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by PackPride85

You're also paying a premium for them to keep that enthusiast base. What's the average selling price of a Porsche vs BMW? (hint: Porsche is much higher) Porsche profit margins are much higher as well.

BMW, like Audi, is a volume luxury car manufacturer.

True, they definitely cost more - but you're also getting more for that price premium than just the MT option (for example).

My 981 was the best car I've ever owned, and by a healthy margin. I am actually considering a CPO 981 GTS for my next car. Or an M2C. We will see...

[spdandpwr]

I don't mind if they don't make a manual...I'm a bit disappointed with the current manual BMW offers. It could be where the clutch pedal engages, but it grinds if you try to 1st-2nd quick shift...you have to ease it in. Car and Driver documented this so I know it's not me. Some shifts are rough, others are smooth.

Whereas the transmission in my Focus RS and ST (a focus for crying out loud) was smooth. Civic Si, Mazdaspeed 3, Nismo 370z, Acura ILX...same thing. Sure, they aren't built to carry as much power, but still.

I don't hate the transmission, I just think it's not perfect and, at this point, I'd prefer not losing stop light races because the car doesn't like shifting into second.

[Brake_Late]

[coldsteelrain]

I don't mind if it's only available in AWD but it really should at least have a manual transmission as an option.
Even if it is a little heavier the extra power and the traction of AWD will still make this faster than the current generation stock vs stock and a great car to drive.
Be happy as the following generation might not even be a combustion engine but rather electric

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by mvigod

I look forward to the AWD M3/4.

Also would never own a manual transmission again. My first M3 was manual. I do not miss it one bit.

Ok BMW build the M3 competition and take my $$$$$$$$

I'm in the same boat. My E92 M3 was manual. Never again.

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

I'm in the same boat. My E92 M3 was manual. Never again.

I hated my ZCP e92 M3 manual. Bloated, slow and heavy. And the gears were rubbery with long throws. Left a lot to be desired for sure. Unless you were over 4k RPM it was useless.

My F80 M3 manual was far superior. Personally, I would never own an automatic M3.

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

THIS IS WHERE THE R&D IS GOING. Perhaps vocalizing efforts against this insanity is better spent than narrowly petitioning for a clutch pedal.

Well but it looks like people don't want R&D do they?
RWD requires way less R&D than a xdrive considering BMW xdrive drives & feels like RWD more than any other AWD in the market. Manual doesn't require any R&D at all, (Well, they did R&D on manuals adding rev-matching, guess what, whiners were whining about that too!) but an AT that is almost as fast as DCT does. And all those electronics that people are complaining about require a lot of R&D as well. If BMW released something like an E46 M3 (with awful damping, incredibly bad SMG tansmission, no adjustability other than one 'Sport' setting, 10 mpg or something, and slower than 340i) they wouldn't need to spend a dime on R&D.

So, basically, you're both rejecting anything that comes out of R&D, you want to stick to the old inferior technologies, then you're complaining most R&D money goes to electric cars.

Also, BMWs are the more "drivers' cars" and "ultimate driving machines" than they're ever been, and they're not 'heavy', as all their models are the lightest ones in their respective classes by huge margins. Being a good driver's machine have NOTHING to do with manual or AWD, it has more to do with the implementation of AT and AWD systems, which BMW excels at (Like F90 M5)

[dmboone25]

I think there will be a manual option. But I expect it to be even more limited this time around - maybe "base" M3 only. The F series GTS and CS were both DCT only, and I can see the same, slow cut-off for the MT continuing on the F generation.

My bet is that the base is RWD and has a MT option, and Comp, CS, and CSL will be ZF8-only. With AWD...

[Alan l.]

It would be a mistake if BMW only offered the manual option on the "lesser" model M3. Its like a slap in the face for the purist M owner. Who's to say those that want a manual doesn't want the Competition package as well...

I don't even mind if the M3 came with the switchable AWD system that the M5 has because having traction to put the power down is a welcomed addition that we don't have now

Give people options BMW!

Alan