[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by anglo

What's your point, ugly sells?

The car it replaced...

No, what's your point? You and a lot of others are already writing off the 4 Series because you think it's a terrible design, which you are perfectly entitled to. Yet, the Bangle-era BMW's were some of the most controversial designs and some labeled terrible (see: E65 7er) yet those became some of the most popular and best selling BMW's, which is the only thing that matters.

You can talk about classic BMW's of yesteryear and how no modern BMW will come close but that talk is and will always be reserved for places like this forum and has no real relevance to the real world where sales performance is the only metric that matters.

Will the new 4er be a success or flop? Only time will tell but and while it probably won't be labeled a classic or be one of the better looking designs from BMW, but its sales isn't necessarily going to suffer because of it.

[Cl0ud7]

If these are the rendering for the 4 series then the new M3 front bumper is pretty much 100%

[The Choosey begger]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

No, what's your point? You and a lot of others are already writing off the 4 Series because you think it's a terrible design, which you are perfectly entitled to. Yet, the Bangle-era BMW's were some of the most controversial designs and some labeled terrible (see: E65 7er) yet those became some of the most popular and best selling BMW's, which is the only thing that matters.

You can talk about classic BMW's of yesteryear and how no modern BMW will come close but that talk is and will always be reserved for places like this forum and has no real relevance to the real world where sales performance is the only metric that matters.

Will the new 4er be a success or flop? Only time will tell but and while it probably won't be labeled a classic or be one of the better looking designs from BMW, but its sales isn't necessarily going to suffer because of it.

It's the dumbing down of the brand, make it like a Lexus, the F10 is heavy with a vague, light steering wheel yet it outsold the fun to drive E39.

[CRtoE92]

With that much grill opening for air, might as well just make towing pkg standard

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by anglo

It's the dumbing down of the brand, make it like a Lexus, the F10 is heavy with a vague, light steering wheel yet it outsold the fun to drive E39.

I guess your theory isnt working anymore since BMW started to lose sales...

What theory? Everything I posted in this thread was merely stating that all the comments here about all the negative things BMW has recently done to "kill the brand" has little effect on how everyone else perceives BMW.

After losing the sales crown to Mercedes for the last 2 or 3 years in the North American market, BMW is on pace to re-capture that with a 9,000 unit lead after June (could be a bit less after July sales).

In the largest single market, both BMW and Mercedes (not incl. commercial vans) have made significant inroads in China where Audi once dominated.

So again, I am not making any predictions nor do I care to do so but everything that we complain and talk about here in this forum does not translate to the market. People are still buying BMWs in a time where the entire industry is more/less flat unless you are Tesla.

[nikicampos]

Originally Posted by anglo

They ruined the 7 series now they're goin to ruin the 4 series and the next M3/M4.

I really don't have a problem with big grills, what I don't like and what I think is the problem, that the grill goes above the "line" of the lights, same big grill but just a bit lower and don't go above the lights, it looks way better for me, that's why I like the new 4 series, the grill is under the imaginary line I mentioned.

[///M TOWN]

.

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

What theory? Everything I posted in this thread was merely stating that all the comments here about all the negative things BMW has recently done to "kill the brand" has little effect on how everyone else perceives BMW.

After losing the sales crown to Mercedes for the last 2 or 3 years in the North American market, BMW is on pace to re-capture that with a 9,000 unit lead after June (could be a bit less after July sales).

In the largest single market, both BMW and Mercedes (not incl. commercial vans) have made significant inroads in China where Audi once dominated.

So again, I am not making any predictions nor do I care to do so but everything that we complain and talk about here in this forum does not translate to the market. People are still buying BMWs in a time where the entire industry is more/less flat unless you are Tesla.

I think the majority of members here understand that bimmerpost doesn't necessarily represent a random sampling of BMW's market. We tend to over represent the sporty, enthusiast end of the market spectrum. You can see this by observing which sub forums are the most active.

In other words, we realize that we don't necessarily speak for the majority of the broader market. At the end of the day we're just here to share opinions and engage in banter with other like minded folks. If everything posted has to be influential, backed by evidence, and from someone serving on BMW's board of directors, the site would cease to exist.

[bobloblaw]

Originally Posted by nikicampos

I really don't have a problem with big grills, what I don't like and what I think is the problem, that the grill goes above the "line" of the lights, same big grill but just a bit lower and don't go above the lights, it looks way better for me, that's why I like the new 4 series, the grill is under the imaginary line I mentioned.

I think my problem with the big grilles is that they ironically look less distinctive than the smaller grilles. The kidneys look distinctive because you see "body paint, kidney, body paint, kidney" from far away. Now you just see "giant chrome thing" that blends in with everything else. This 4er grille might look like a Hyundai Genesis's cut in half lol.

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by bobloblaw

I think my problem with the big grilles is that they ironically look less distinctive than the smaller grilles. The kidneys look distinctive because you see "body paint, kidney, body paint, kidney" from far away. Now you just see "giant chrome thing" that blends in with everything else. This 4er grille might look like a Hyundai Genesis's cut in half lol.

Wow, it really does. I hadn't noticed that prior to your post.

[TodmordenLad]

As others have said, this latest design won't stop the model from selling well. That doesn't stop it from being poor design, however.

[icpee]

Sooo how many more people are going to come marching into this thread with their pitchforks because they dont like the as yet to be revealed 4er design, declare they won't ever buy another BMW as long as they live and settle on another vehicle brand🤣

[J-RO]

Originally Posted by icpee

Sooo how many more people are going to come marching into this thread with their pitchforks because they dont like the as yet to be revealed 4er design, declare they won't ever buy another BMW as long as they live and settle on another vehicle brand🤣

Time will tell.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

The rear end is perfect, but if the kidney grille looks ANYTHING like that then that car is a design failure to my eyes.

Slap on the 8 series front grille and call it a day and you have a decent looking car. Apart from the Lexus rear end.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by J-RO

The Lexus grille is worse.

You need your eyes checked.

[sttlondon]

the front end, in one word: atrocious.
the grills don't look bad on the i4 concept shown a few years back but this version on this car looks REALLY bad, imo. Hopefully these renders are way off.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by sttlondon

the front end, in one word: atrocious.
the grills don't look bad on the i4 concept shown a few years back but this version on this car looks REALLY bad, imo. Hopefully these renders are way off.

The spy shots show that the renders are very close to what we'll see.

[advantage20]

For those who have been sleeping under a rock or are still in disbelief (i4 but same grille outline as the 4er):

[The Choosey begger]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

What theory? Everything I posted in this thread was merely stating that all the comments here about all the negative things BMW has recently done to "kill the brand" has little effect on how everyone else perceives BMW.

After losing the sales crown to Mercedes for the last 2 or 3 years in the North American market, BMW is on pace to re-capture that with a 9,000 unit lead after June (could be a bit less after July sales).

In the largest single market, both BMW and Mercedes (not incl. commercial vans) have made significant inroads in China where Audi once dominated.

So again, I am not making any predictions nor do I care to do so but everything that we complain and talk about here in this forum does not translate to the market. People are still buying BMWs in a time where the entire industry is more/less flat unless you are Tesla.

Why the last BMW's CEO just Got fired?

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by anglo

Why the last BMW's CEO just Got fired?

Technically he stepped down...

It's time for BMW to go places they've never gone before.

[Spied4US]

This is a quasi-addendum to advantage20's post (#306) above.

In short: He's spot on. See: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...e-future-2021/

Carry on.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by anglo

Why the last BMW's CEO just Got fired?

Because the Board of Directors thought he was moving too slowly toward electrification and BMW was going to be late-to-market versus the competition.