[NorCalAthlete]

Re: Huge grill looks in the front - it looks better than a Tesla front end if indeed it's a precursor to an all-electric G22 4-series.

[cactusjack]

This asshole needs to be put in a mental ward ASAP

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by frank.m2

Yes. Please let's vote with our wallets. I just love how they keep bringing up the classic cars but not realizing it doesn't do anything to justify this monstrosity.

I'm waiting to see
how many people will buy this because it's new and has a BMW badge?
how many people will lease this because their last lease expired?

Some how in this day and age of "followers", it seems like once you establish a brand, no matter how you mess up and destroy it, there will always be blind followers willing to fork out cash for it.

I hope to be proven wrong.

I don't understand why they refer to a couple of classic misfits (ugly then and ugly now) and promote it as the reference for true heritage. The M1, e23, e32, e29, e28, e29, e39, e46,e21, e30, e36, e31 850i, all of them had small to tiny kidney grills and every single one of them I admired limitless for their sleek and refined design.

Don't tell me that they were all conservative evolutions of the same theme. Each and every single of them were praised global wide and are still a pleasure to look at today!

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete

Not gonna lie, I'd be interested in an all electric G22 if it did 0-60 in < 4 seconds and had at least a 350 mile range. Assuming they kept it under $50k or so anyway to compete with the Tesla Model 3. I'd much prefer a BMW to a Tesla.

I have not heard anything about a i4 2-door Coupe. Has there been any indication of an all-electric 2 -door? The i4 to my knowledge is only in a 4-door guise?

My impression is his comments were the the "4-line as a whole" offers you ICE, hybrid, and electric variants.

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

....and if/when you're wrong and the car sells equally as well as, or better than, its predecessors, what would/will you say then?

We should be careful with the use of the word, "never."

So you equal sale volume with good design? Probably the F150 pick-up should be their new inspiring example then?

[ecaedus]

Originally Posted by frank.m2

Yes. Please let's vote with our wallets. I just love how they keep bringing up the classic cars but not realizing it doesn't do anything to justify this monstrosity.

I'm waiting to see
how many people will buy this because it's new and has a BMW badge?
how many people will lease this because their last lease expired?

Some how in this day and age of "followers", it seems like once you establish a brand, no matter how you mess up and destroy it, there will always be blind followers willing to fork out cash for it.

I hope to be proven wrong.

given the sales number of bmw's entry sedans over the past few years, i wouldn't worry about this new 4 series coupe breaking any sales records.

bmw's 3/4 series have been in a decline ever since model 3 came out. from 99k units in 2017 to 66K units in 2019, this year is just gonna be worse.

in fact i'd be surprised if it can even out sell the current c class coupe, or the new A5, those are gorgeous looking cars.

[CityLife]

I just get this feeling every time BMW shows off the new 4 series, they are aware the Kidney looks awful, it is as if they have burned a Thanksgiving turkey, and are trying to carve around it to salvage the meal.

I try to keep an open mind and have been hoping the grill grows on me, but the way they always awkwardly address the grill and awkwardly try to justify it just feels uncomfortable overall.

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by CityLife

I just get this feeling every time BMW shows off the new 4 series, they are aware the Kidney looks awful, it is as if they have burned a Thanksgiving turkey, and are trying to carve around it to salvage the meal.

I try to keep an open mind and have been hoping the grill grows on me, but the way they always awkwardly address the grill and awkwardly try to justify it just feels uncomfortable overall.

Yes, indeed, they are already referring to the "controversy" that it provokes. Not what they said the day of launch. I guess that even those stubborn Germans start to understand there is something going on.

They keep telling now that we'll learn to love it over time... will not happen.

[NorCalAthlete]

Originally Posted by Frosty

I have not heard anything about a i4 2-door Coupe. Hs ther been any indication of an all-electric 2 -door? THe i4 to mu knowledge is only in a 4-door guise?

My impression is his comments were the the "4-line as a whole" offers you ICE, hybrid, and electric variants.

No, I haven't heard anything about an i4 2-door coupe either, just saying I'd be interested moreso than the current preview of the i4.

I mean what're your options for a 2 door electric coupe at the moment? The Tesla Roadster is on the way but that's $200,000+.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete

No, I haven't heard anything about an i4 2-door coupe either, just saying I'd be interested moreso than the current preview of the i4.

I mean what're your options for a 2 door electric coupe at the moment? The Tesla Roadster is on the way but that's $200,000+.

EXACTLY... When I saw the Tesla Roaster 2.0 my first thought ( after wondering if I could triple mortgage my house ) was 1/3 the price someone could really capture the ( small ) coupe market and really kill in performance the entire segment. I'd love a coupe from BMW in the 50-75k range that was all electric... my fantasy is an electric 6MT by some stroke of engineering magic. I'll be happy with a 4 variant with 6MT ( RWD G82 6MT M4 ) but an electric G22 with an alternative transmission would be a very tempting proposition...

[CityLife]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

....and if/when you're wrong and the car sells equally as well as, or better than, its predecessors, what would/will you say then?

We should be careful with the use of the word, "never."

This seems like a really bad bet, as I have mentioned in other posts design has little to do with how a car does vs. it predecessor. It is mostly based on macro economics. However, in this case we are seeing volatility in both global economics and a massive shift in consumer behavior.

-The fact is there is a global pandemic and car sales have been drastically declining the last three years (17-18 had largest YOY decline since financial crisis), BMW has made a risky move in a time where they also have more competition than ever before.

-There is a reason Wells Fargo has moved away from car loans and why every major US bank that is exposed to car loans has taken an absolute beating in their stock price when compared to banks without that level of exposure. The same reason why loan loss reserves have been drastically increased this quarter. The car loan bubble was anticipated as the next bubble for years, and it is bursting now.

-Although I personally think it is overvalued, Teslas stock reaching $1700+ is based on anticipated Chinese growth in electric vehicle sales, so if this big bet on this grill was made for that market, this seems concerning if the that is the anticipated shift in consumer behavior that is expected for that market.

If for some reason this vehicle does sell better than its predecessor, I I would look at overall vehicle sales and see if it actually gained any market share, seems like a more relevant measure of success. Simple people will always bring up the ugly Bangle 7, a hideous car that sold well in a growing financial bubble. My guess is that BMW will not be bailed out by a booming economic bubble this time.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by KoenG

So you equal sale volume with good design? Probably the F150 pick-up should be their new inspiring example then?

Design is subjective. Sales numbers are objective.


...and for anybody desiring and/or needing a truck, the Ford F-150 has proven to be a sure bet. Your attempt at a drawing a valid analogous point failed.

[Buckeye Rob]

Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete

Re: Huge grill looks in the front - it looks better than a Tesla front end if indeed it's a precursor to an all-electric G22 4-series.

And people have been dogging the "huge" X7 kidney grill, which I think is proportional to the size of the vehicle. Did the 4 designer work on the Pontiac Solstice grill?

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Design is subjective. Sales numbers are objective.


...and for anybody desiring and/or needing a truck, the Ford F-150 has proven to be sure bet. Your attempt at a drawing a valid analogous point failed.

No, it didn't. Here we discuss the design, it's the subject of the thread. You started to use sales as ultimate judge for design quality or at least suggested it.

There probably is a correlation between it, but the world is not ceteris paribus. For instance, I drive a (ugly) X3 and I find a F8 tributo much more attractive. So why I don't drive the F8 then?

[en1gma]

Originally Posted by bobloblaw

For whatever reason, BMW is using the weird double-kink from the X4 and 6GT on their new coupes. Odd choice, and it looks clunky and not very sleek to me.

[img]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bb/0f...736818e343.jpg[/img]

Completely agree.

Take the badge off that rear 3/4 shot of the X4 and it could be any other car than a BMW. The Audi/Lexus-ish tail lights are bad enough but the the 'kink' - pah! Nail in the coffin...

The link to the interview with the head of design in another thread (w.r.t. the new 2 series) tells me everything I need to know... it's now 'just another brand' with no recognition of what makes/defines the brand in the first place.

[AlpineAl27]

This guy has singlehandedly ruined all future BMW designs for me. I too was in denial when I saw the prototypes with their massive grilles driving around. I can't express how disappointed I am in this brand after learning it will make it to production. R.I.P beautiful BMW design of old.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by KoenG

No, it didn't. Here we discuss the design, it's the subject of the thread. You started to use sales as ultimate judge for design quality or at least suggested it.

There probably is a correlation between it, but the world is not ceteris paribus. For instance, I drive a (ugly) X3 and I find a F8 tributo much more attractive. So why I don't drive the F8 then?

You tell me! Why don't you drive the F8? Do you have access to it?....the funds to pay for it?!

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

You tell me! Why don't you drive the F8? Do you have access to it?....the funds to pay for it?!

No, it's not that practical.

[TopJimmy]

He shoulda said..."I'm the guy who's going to get the blame and fired over that stupid grill."

The only positive point I heard was that this is for the 4 to differentiate...so hopefully the new M3 won't get the new Water Buffalo Nose.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by KoenG

No, it's not that practical.

I totally understand that.

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

He shoulda said..."I'm the guy who's going to get the blame and fired over that stupid grill."

The only positive point I heard was that this is for the 4 to differentiate...so hopefully the new M3 won't get the new Water Buffalo Nose.

You don't pay attention, do you? The M3 has the same front end as the M4.

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

He shoulda said..."I'm the guy who's going to get the blame and fired over that stupid grill."

The only positive point I heard was that this is for the 4 to differentiate...so hopefully the new M3 won't get the new Water Buffalo Nose.

First statement will soon proof to hold truth! The second not. It's not because BMW says Sakhir orange is a unique color to M, or BMW will never produce FWD, or M will never be AT, or diesel will never wear M, that there is a grain of truth in it.

[TopJimmy]

Originally Posted by KoenG

First statement will soon proof to hold truth! The second not. It's not because BMW says Sakhir orange is a unique color to M, or BMW will never produce FWD, or M will never be AT, or diesel will never wear M, that there is a grain of truth in it.

Yeah, the dream is over. This seems to be the new G80 M3...with the big nose too. At least the grill and surround seem to come in black, which lessens the impact (still not enough).