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      05-24-2019, 09:50 AM   #375
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No MT for G80 is just sad 😞

I have a BMW corporate friend and he sort of mentioned casually that there won't be a manual option for G80. I thought he was just kidding and now that I see this update, I'm beginning to believe it.

No MT means I'll be keeping my current F80 MT.
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      05-24-2019, 02:18 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
We do not know, my hunch is that they will still offer a manual since they (BMW) have intimated thoroughly that they will, but there has been an adjustment of sorts, where the Pure, Base, Comp has been rearranged and a variant might be eliminated, probably Pure or Base.

The insider said he will no longer confirm manual, but take rates on 6MT F80's was ~ 30% in North America the largest M3 market in the World, so it would be asinine not to offer the M3 in a manual. The take rate for M2 has been ~ 50% so 6MT is doing well recently, as opposed to Audi dropping it from the S4/A4 where take rates were below 10% in North America which is sad.

IMO, no way BMW tells ~ 30% of NA buyers to check out the competition, it makes no sense to not offer a 6MT, but it does not hurt to let your feelings be expressed. BMW! Give us three pedals!!!
16,000 F80 M3 sold in USA...roughly average around 3,000 per year

4,500 Manuals total

Or less than a 1,000 a year average.

For a Company that sells roughly 2,000,000 cars a year.

Peanuts.

Less than 1,000 cars a year isn't even noticed on the financial books.

In fact, the added platform parts cost savings probably make it a wash.

Likewise, you have made an assumption not based in facts that BMW will lose all 4,500 MT buyers to another brand.
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      05-24-2019, 05:01 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by Grande Oso View Post
BMW should make the M3 as pure as can be, with three pedals. Make it the ultimate daily driving machine.
Then give us fans a M4 GC with the AWD and all the other goodies to get as close to what the M5 has. This will solve all the problems
They should. I agree. Charge 100% more than the M3 Comp that is faster. Totally makes sense.
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      05-25-2019, 10:45 AM   #378
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As it relates to the F80 M3, a 30% take rate is very promising, as someone who is in business, if I have that many customers wanting a certain feature I do what I can to accommodate. Enthusiasts during the F80 platform spoke with their wallets, wanting 6MT.

Many reports in the past stated that a 20% take rate was all that was needed to offer a manual in certain markets. We see that number has been exceeded despite dealers almost always ordering an automatic, and rarely if ever having a manual on the lot for people to experience the wholistic joy that comes with rowing your own gears.

Viva la manual!
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      05-25-2019, 01:44 PM   #379
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WWM3 View Post
Some % of M3/M4 customers will switch to the M2 if the G80 doesn't meet their requirements. There is certainly overlap between the two markets and I would expect more if the G80 abandons certain enthusiast preferred options/layouts.
I feel like there's some truth to this. That ///M2 CS is looking like a mighty nice option at this point.
I am one off those guys.
Want a car for track and looks like M2 CS is the beat option right now if I can get one.
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      05-25-2019, 01:50 PM   #380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
We do not know, my hunch is that they will still offer a manual since they (BMW) have intimated thoroughly that they will, but there has been an adjustment of sorts, where the Pure, Base, Comp has been rearranged and a variant might be eliminated, probably Pure or Base.

The insider said he will no longer confirm manual, but take rates on 6MT F80's was ~ 30% in North America the largest M3 market in the World, so it would be asinine not to offer the M3 in a manual. The take rate for M2 has been ~ 50% so 6MT is doing well recently, as opposed to Audi dropping it from the S4/A4 where take rates were below 10% in North America which is sad.

IMO, no way BMW tells ~ 30% of NA buyers to check out the competition, it makes no sense to not offer a 6MT, but it does not hurt to let your feelings be expressed. BMW! Give us three pedals!!!
16,000 F80 M3 sold in USA...roughly average around 3,000 per year

4,500 Manuals total

Or less than a 1,000 a year average.

For a Company that sells roughly 2,000,000 cars a year.

Peanuts.

Less than 1,000 cars a year isn't even noticed on the financial books.

In fact, the added platform parts cost savings probably make it a wash.

Likewise, you have made an assumption not based in facts that BMW will lose all 4,500 MT buyers to another brand.
You got that right.
I owned every M3 MT and moved to F90 M5.
I loved the M5 specially after modifying it and got about 850HP
The car is wicked fast but something was missing????
MT and I can't live without it

MT is just something that is so much fun and enjoyable to drive.
MT
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      05-25-2019, 02:49 PM   #381
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Manual is IMO the option that changes the experience of a specific car the most, it is also the option M3 buyers who prefer this option are the most passionate about and takers are a sizable percent. I doubt it’s gone for good, it’s likely just a delayed a year or two.
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      05-25-2019, 09:02 PM   #382
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AWD and slush box aside, if they put that gaudy g’damn awful diamond stitching garbage that is starting to creep into BMWs in the M3 I’m out
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      05-26-2019, 01:53 PM   #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepingBMW View Post
Well I've been bitching for a while that this ZF8 business in M cars was purely a money saving thing and now it's out of the bag to be true.

The writing was everywhere anyway. Anyone praising the ZF8 saying it's ok to be in the M5 should be slapped. Up charged for a cheap commuter transmission so BMW can report profits while these electric models are in development but not being sold.
+100 to that
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      05-26-2019, 05:18 PM   #384
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by SethC View Post
Can anyone explain to me why do they need to have a rwd version of the M3 too if they have an AWD one?
Weight.

You will be surprised how much more nimble a car is without the additional 70-80kg in drivetrain components.

Weight is also the main reason why regularly tracked 911s are almost never AWD models despite the rear engine layout which inherently reduces front end grip.
Full disclosure — I've never owned an M-car but I do own a RWD M340i and I love it. But here's the crazy part... this car weighs nearly 3850lbs (RWD) and about 4000 lbs (AWD) and it's classified as a compact sports sedan! Don't get me wrong, it's a huge upgrade in every possible way from my F36 435i. But when did compact sports sedans start weighing that much?!?
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      05-26-2019, 05:30 PM   #385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownRoyal79 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SethC View Post
Can anyone explain to me why do they need to have a rwd version of the M3 too if they have an AWD one?
Weight.

You will be surprised how much more nimble a car is without the additional 70-80kg in drivetrain components.

Weight is also the main reason why regularly tracked 911s are almost never AWD models despite the rear engine layout which inherently reduces front end grip.
Full disclosure — I've never owned an M-car but I do own a RWD M340i and I love it. But here's the crazy part... this car weighs nearly 5000lbs and it's classified as a compact sports sedan! Don't get me wrong, it's a huge upgrade in every possible way from my F36 435i. But when did compact sports sedans start weighing that much?!?
5000 lbs?
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      05-26-2019, 06:12 PM   #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownRoyal79 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SethC View Post
Can anyone explain to me why do they need to have a rwd version of the M3 too if they have an AWD one?
Weight.

You will be surprised how much more nimble a car is without the additional 70-80kg in drivetrain components.

Weight is also the main reason why regularly tracked 911s are almost never AWD models despite the rear engine layout which inherently reduces front end grip.
Full disclosure — I've never owned an M-car but I do own a RWD M340i and I love it. But here's the crazy part... this car weighs nearly 5000lbs and it's classified as a compact sports sedan! Don't get me wrong, it's a huge upgrade in every possible way from my F36 435i. But when did compact sports sedans start weighing that much?!?
5000 lbs?
Sorry, I meant 4000lbs, smh. M340i is around 3850 and the 340xi is around 4000.
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      05-27-2019, 06:44 AM   #387
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Personally, I don't care if they've cancelled the MT.

I own a really, really wonderful M140i with the ZF auto GB as here in Italy my beloved MT wasn't available, even as special order.

At the beginning it has been really difficult to understand and to appreciate the new AutoBox, but now, I realy love it (even if I've also another manual car in the garage).

In my opinion, the G80 claims for a ZF gearbox, the manual is wonderful on different cars, more driver and fun focused.
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      05-27-2019, 02:32 PM   #388
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Part of my personal definition of a fun car is that you have to shift it for yourself and use a clutch. To each his own, but I won't buy a M car if it doesn't have a stick. If the no stick rumor turns out to be true, I guess the E46 M3 in my garage will appreciate in value even faster than it already has over the past year.
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      05-27-2019, 03:43 PM   #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post

No, my reason is it is the iconic M3....

A manual version shows the brand still cares about Motorsport.

If sales volume is all that matters then why make an M3 at all?
In fact the M division should be eliminated according to your stance, but that will never happen, because M makes the brand more successful as it embellishes the lineup with a parallel existence to Motorsport (Milne).....
I know that the inventible is hard to accept, as BMW M = marketing in 2019. BMW M will never be eliminated, as M cars have higher profit margins. Hate to break it to you, as today's motorsport vehicles are not 3 pedals. Plain and simple, the return on investment does not justify co-development of a 6MT F80, as R&D from the F90 AT AWD is being used across the M product line.
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      05-27-2019, 07:23 PM   #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibiza View Post
I know that the inventible is hard to accept, as BMW M = marketing in 2019. BMW M will never be eliminated, as M cars have higher profit margins. Hate to break it to you, as today's motorsport vehicles are not 3 pedals. Plain and simple, the return on investment does not justify co-development of a 6MT F80, as R&D from the F90 AT AWD is being used across the M product line.
To me, a fun Motorsport car will always be three-pedals, after Owning 1M, E46, E90 x2, F80, F87 and constantly leasing an X5 for my wife my relationship with the brand will end.

Going forward, tech and aesthetics will be of very little importance, showing an enthusiast group that driver involvement is important, will dictate my buying decisions.

The last manual standing will be parked in my garage.
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      05-27-2019, 08:15 PM   #391
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Then you can buy American or Porsche only?
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      05-27-2019, 10:50 PM   #392
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I'm assuming the AWD will still be AWD/RWD like the m5... still reallllly want that manual. My 6MT f80 was way more fun on street and track than my Dct F80... even tho the 6MT felt/was slower until I tuned it to even the playing field...

6MT so much fun. Wonder if the new C8 Vette will have a manual option? Yes BMW, that was a threat
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      05-28-2019, 12:46 AM   #393
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Then you can buy American or Porsche only?
buy american man. support detroit rock city. 4 on the floor.
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      05-28-2019, 09:32 AM   #394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V-Eight View Post
Personally, I don't care if they've cancelled the MT.

I own a really, really wonderful M140i with the ZF auto GB as here in Italy my beloved MT wasn't available, even as special order.

At the beginning it has been really difficult to understand and to appreciate the new AutoBox, but now, I realy love it (even if I've also another manual car in the garage).

In my opinion, the G80 claims for a ZF gearbox, the manual is wonderful on different cars, more driver and fun focused.
No offense, but you drive a Ghibli, you dont care about lots of things.
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      05-28-2019, 10:00 AM   #395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by V-Eight View Post
Personally, I don't care if they've cancelled the MT.

I own a really, really wonderful M140i with the ZF auto GB as here in Italy my beloved MT wasn't available, even as special order.

At the beginning it has been really difficult to understand and to appreciate the new AutoBox, but now, I realy love it (even if I've also another manual car in the garage).

In my opinion, the G80 claims for a ZF gearbox, the manual is wonderful on different cars, more driver and fun focused.
No offense, but you drive a Ghibli, you dont care about lots of things.
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      06-02-2019, 11:25 PM   #396
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It seems that the downmarket 6MT Pure model from the original post is being cancelled and launch models of the M3 will be AT only.

However, BMW could revisit the 6MT for an undeniably upmarket CS down the road. I say this based on the last paragraph in the evo article from this post:

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1592758

Quote:
There could, however, be a rear-drive, manual-gearbox light at the end of the tunnel. In the past, M’s CS models have been the most powerful, quick and focused offerings, but there is a suggestion that a new M3 CS could focus less on performance and more on a purer driving experience. This would be achieved by offering a rear-drive, manual model, whose turbocharged six would produce less torque (and subsequently power, too) to preserve the gearbox’s internals, but would also shun some of the complex – and heavy – technology that burdens modern performance cars. It sounds like an M3 evo would build. Hopefully BMW will, too.
This would change the game, if true. We’ll see what they end up coming out with. For me personally, it depends on what they strip out of the MT model. Horsepower can be added relatively easily by the aftermarket, but other options are not so easy.

Last edited by Iceman1; 06-04-2019 at 10:14 PM..
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