[jcgd91]

Hey,

So last Sunday I was at the front of a queue of traffic at a roundabout, and the car behind me drove into the back of me (I was completely stationary at this point). It was at a very low speed.

I got out of the car and the lady in the car behind me also got out and was apologetic etc. We checked both cars and on the initial inspection, could not really see any marks/damage. I asked the lady for her phone number, and told her I would inspect the car more thoroughly at home, and she was happy enough for me to do this.

When I got home, I checked the car again, and still could not really see anything. I went out a few times to check, because I was skeptical that there would be no damage from the impact regardless of the speed.

It was only a few days later, when the sun came out, that I was able to see a dent on the rear diffuser. Close to the dent, there is a very slight depress, which looks like the shape of a number plate.

I text her to notify her about this, and she then text back: 'Sorry, not accepting liability'. My first thought at this was, how can there even be the question of liability when you hit a stationary car?

As part of a string of text messages, she sent one that said 'Sorry about that' (This was after our first exchange on the day of the impact) - Would this be deemed enough as implicit admission of guilt?

The good thing about this, is that the car suffered absolutely no damage to the paint work. I checked all parking sensors etc. and all appear to be absolutely fine.

I'm just looking a bit of advice, and wondering what would be the best course of action. Should I file a non-fault claim, or would that not be worth it in this case?

The whole thing has left me feeling very annoyed. I really look after this car. The most annoying part about this is not the actual damage, it's the fact that people try and get away with this kind of stuff and not own their mistakes.

It's a g22 430i btw . Couple of pics attached where the car was hit and the dent that's not easy to see in certain lighting conditions.

[alFR]

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.

While there doesn't sound to be any doubt about who was liable for the initial incident, I guess the issue is the delay. She could claim that as you couldn't see any damage at the scene, said you would inspect the car more thoroughly at home and didn't get back to her later the same day / the next day to notify her of any damage you must have damaged the car yourself sometime in the next few days and are now trying to blame that on her. I have no idea how that would play out with the insurers, but I'd be wondering if it's worth the hassle / delay and potential increased premium at renewal if you submit a claim rather than just fixing it out of pocket. Maybe get some costings for repair / replacement and then decide?

Note that strictly you should notify the insurers of any accident regardless of whether you are making a claim or not, whether or not you do that is of course up to you.

[Portimao Blue M440ix]

Fortunately the damage is very hard for you to even see. If its just the diffuser maybe you can just replace that. If you have to pay a deductible its probably better to pay out of pocket.

[jcgd91]

Thanks for the replies so far.

My assumption would be that it's going to be much cheaper for me to pay for a new diffuser (unless the non-fault thing worked out).

Would I be best going to my main dealer for this? I would even be open to an after-market diffuser that would enhance the look (then at least I won't feel as bad about being out of pocket for it haha).

[DravitPlay]

In my opinion, your insurance premium will increase regardless of who was at fault, as they’ll likely believe something along the lines of “prone to causing accidents”, and you’ll have to declare it for the next 5 years when you renew the policy. If it’s only slightly visible in bright sunlight, I’d live with it until I couldn’t any more. I didn’t study your pictures with a microscope, but I can’t see it.

[paulockenden]

If it’s an almost impossible to see ding then I probably wouldn’t bother with a claim - even if she ends up accepting responsibility you’ll still find your insurance premiums mysteriously rising more than otherwise.

[Assassin]

Unfortunate but its too late after the event to do anything anyway. You should always take pics at the scene of damage, car locations, other driver (if you can) and get any witness details. Anyway as others have said its not worth claiming as you will come out the loser on insurance in the end for minimal damage. Many of the insurance companies have "knock for knock" agreements anyway so it goes against you either way.

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by Assassin

Unfortunate but its too late after the event to do anything anyway. You should always take pics at the scene of damage, car locations, other driver (if you can) and get any witness details. Anyway as others have said its not worth claiming as you will come out the loser on insurance in the end for minimal damage. Many of the insurance companies have "knock for knock" agreements anyway so it goes against you either way.

Absolutely this ^^^^ And that’s from personal experience!

[The_Tok'Ra]

I was rear ended at a set of traffic lights like the OP a number of years ago, the lady behind me was driving in heals and she said her foot slipped off the clutch.

Clearly, she was too close to me to be able to react and stop her car again in time.

She admitted liability, we exchanged details, I notified my insurer at the time of my non-fault claim. That all went fine.

The car was fixed around 3 weeks later, I got a decent courtesy car while mine was in for repair, and the repair work was all carried out well enough.

However, when my renewal came around again, despite me having around 17 years protected NCB, I got a bit of a shock as the insurance company (Bell Direct) wanted an additional £200, (a 50% increase) over the previous years premium.

This was a number of years ago too, before the cost of insurance started to get silly too.

The insurance company claimed that the reason for the hike was because the area the accident took place was an accident blackspot and this justified the hike. It's a five minute walk from my house!

I'd been with that insurer for 20 years at that point, but they would not budge at all, so I ended up having to change my insurer to get my quote back down to the same as it was the years before, or there abouts.

Technically, you are required by law to report any incident to your insurance company, regardless. But what you do, is entrely up to your good self.


Hopefully Boris the bold will chime in, he knows about these things better than most.

[jcgd91]

Thanks for the replies.

The incident happened on a fairly busy main road. The exchange between myself and the other party was brief and when we inspected the cars, we could not see any obvious damage at the time, so I had nothing to take a photo of. I guess I could have taken a picture of her car, but she had already reversed back so it appeared as though she was in a safe driving position. Her actual excuse for rear ending me was "I thought you were going to go" (which is why she drove into me). So it's poor awareness/driving on her part.

I would be super pissed if the damage was not limited to the diffuser. I imagine the diffuser is probably susceptible to dings from normal wear and tear anyway (stone chips etc.). I'm still surprised at how limited the damage is. I even went out today to have another look for it and struggled to find it .

It's shit that even for non-fault, you are still penalised, but it is what it is.

I can live with it for now. Maybe I'll even change the diffuser in future .

[The_Tok'Ra]

Originally Posted by jcgd91

Thanks for the replies.

The incident happened on a fairly busy main road. The exchange between myself and the other party was brief and when we inspected the cars, we could not see any obvious damage at the time, so I had nothing to take a photo of. I guess I could have taken a picture of her car, but she had already reversed back so it appeared as though she was in a safe driving position. Her actual excuse for rear ending me was "I thought you were going to go" (which is why she drove into me). So it's poor awareness/driving on her part.

I would be super pissed if the damage was not limited to the diffuser. I imagine the diffuser is probably susceptible to dings from normal wear and tear anyway (stone chips etc.). I'm still surprised at how limited the damage is. I even went out today to have another look for it and struggled to find it .

It's shit that even for non-fault, you are still penalised, but it is what it is.

I can live with it for now. Maybe I'll even change the diffuser in future .

Just bear in mind that unless you have it replaced with like for like, you will need to notify your insurance company of that too, as they may well consider the change of diffuser as a mod.

[boristhebold]

Hi You are not at fault , she has rear ended you therefore from the description of the incident you have given she has full liability. The question of no visible damage is not that relevant as modern bumpers flex and bound back but any metal or other plastic fitted behind or on the bumper may fracture or dent.

I presume you took her insurance details / registration number so I would consider taking to a BMW approved bodyshop to see if there is any actual damage other than what you can see and if so the cost of the repair. You can then make an informed decision as to whether to make a claim on her insurance or just leave it. If you do make a claim try not to involve your insurers in the actual claims procedure but make the claim direct to her insurers or go via a reputable accident claims company that is BMW approved. This inspection needs to be done ASAP as time is getting on and any further delay could go against you.

If you do make a claim then inform your insurers but make sure you stress the notification is for information only and that you will be dealing with her insurers either yourself or via the management company.

If there is damage and you make a claim you will unfortunately have to disclose the accident as a non fault at next renewal and yes your premium will probably rise ( unfair but a reality ) although it will not be as much as the repair cost should you think about paying it yourself.

If there is no damage or so little you are willing to live with it then if it was me I would not bother telling my insurers or declaring it as an accident on renewal.

Good luck.

[bmnut]

I think the opinion/advice given by ‘Boris’ above really sums it up for you.
As for having the damage inspected by a BMW Approved Bodyshop just be aware they may suggest replacement of parts to return it to factory perfect condition despite the fact that that won’t affect the operational capability of your car in any way. If cosmetically even you can barely notice it then maybe live with it as over time you’ll probably almost forget about it.
There is an ‘impacter’ behind the bumper cover but I’d doubt that has been compromised if the impact was very low speed.
Because hindsight is a very exact science we only appreciate the benefit of afterwards the ‘lack’ of evidence eg photos at the time of the incident (like you said there wasn’t anything sufficiently visible enough to record anyway) doesn’t supply any supporting evidence for you unfortunately. The other driver will I doubt adopt the attitude that the damage was caused retrospectively so you could well find yourself in a ‘he said, she said’ situation which would likely be unresolvable.
As for informing insurance companies….well that has to be a personal decision. Unfortunately the way insurance companies work these days doesn’t encourage any openness in dialogue between company and customer and indeed makes otherwise always ‘honest, and law abiding’ folk question their continuing stance in that regard!
In your position I think I would probably get BMW to look at it for my own peace of mind or indeed even if just out of curiosity and decide then based on that outcome. I’d forget about pursuing the other driver for compensation as it has the potential to open a ‘Pandora’s box’ of a right shitstorm and accidentally ‘forget’! to mention anything to an insurance company to deny them the very likely potential of punishing you in the future financially because I reckon it’s very highly unlikely the other driver will say anything to her insurance company on the grounds of self-incrimination if nothing else?

[jcgd91]

Thanks again for the replies.

boristhebold bmnut, I think I'll get it booked in for an inspection for the peace of mind. If there is nothing wrong behind the bumper, then I'm happy enough to live with it. Are there any costs incurred for such inspections?

My gut feeling is that it will be a mission to get the other involved party to admit liablilty anyway despite it being clear cut.

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by jcgd91

Thanks again for the replies.

boristhebold bmnut, I think I'll get it booked in for an inspection for the peace of mind. If there is nothing wrong behind the bumper, then I'm happy enough to live with it. Are there any costs incurred for such inspections?

My gut feeling is that it will be a mission to get the other involved party to admit liablilty anyway despite it being clear cut.

There shouldn’t be any cost involved for an estimate, make sure you tell them it’s NOT an insurance claim because trust me that quote will undoubtedly be much higher if they think an insurance company is paying!
Best decision I reckon….go with your gut feeling!

[boristhebold]

In respect of liability her comment "I thought you were going to go" is as you say poor awareness/driving on her part and is in some major part an admission of liabilty. If it was verbal and not in a text then there may be a question of he said / she said but as she has rear ended you taking all things into account my opinion is you have a good case should this need to involve insurers.

Insurance companies do have knock for knock agreements but this is generally when there isn't any clear cut evidence as to who is at fault.

Hopefully there will be little or just minor cosmetic damage that you can live with and the insurance companies can remain unaware of this incident.

[HeebieJeebies]

Not sure if this is mentioned above, or indeed if it’s a thing in England, although I presume so, have you thought of a small claims court action? May keep it off the insurance’s books

We had an incident in a gym car park, not that long ago. A young girl scraped up along the rear bumper of our G21 in her car. The driver did a runner but my wife, known for her Sherlock Holmes detective work, along with my youngest daughter (a police constable), got cctv of the incident, including her registration number.

The gym staff claimed they didn’t know who it was at first, but they very obviously did, VRN must have matched a members car. She had just panicked and drove off.

My wife contacted the police and her insurance, who initially put a ‘note’ on our policy, awaiting any police feedback etc.

The gym staff, obviously got in touch with the young girl as we received a call from her mum, explaining she panicked and she was a new driver and could we keep it out of an insurance claim, it would’ve been devastating to the young driver. The mum said she would pay any damage from an estimate, to cut a long story short, they turned out to be decent people, the damage was fixed and they paid BMW direct.

However, that ‘note’ on the insurance followed us around when renewing insurance on my Mustang and when we got the G22. Once we had cleared that up, it never impacted on future insurance quotes.

The damage was minimal to our car and, if the girl hadn’t ‘ran away’, I would’ve been happy to have taken their word of paying, they did, your perpetrator has now had a think, and is probably assuming you won’t go through the process with your insurance because of the inconvenience. I would still report this to the police, for a crime number and tell the perp that you are doing so, may help in a change of attitude from them.

It ended up costing that young girls mum, £1000 when I could’ve probably buffed it out, had her daughter not ‘run away’.

Edit: just noticed you’re from Ireland