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2018 BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS General G20 3-Series Sedan Discussion 2019 BMW 3 Series G20 handling improvements deep dive

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      11-09-2018, 04:46 PM   #1
TooFan328i
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2019 BMW 3 Series G20 handling improvements deep dive

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Pretty interesting stuff (although I didn't follow every bit - I will need another read!).

https://jalopnik.com/the-engineering...ing-1830257906

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BMW says the new 2019 BMW 3 Series, which debuted last month in Paris, “moves the game on once again in terms of driving dynamics.” So, to learn the tech behind what makes the new car handle better than its predecessor, I spoke with dynamics engineer Robert Rothmiller. Here’s what he told me.

The head of functional design and integration for driving dynamics of the new G20 3 Series broke down the main changes to the car’s handling into three categories: weight and track width, body and chassis stiffness, and technical systems. The first of those promises to give the car better grip in turns, the second could improve chassis response and comfort, and the last supposedly yields a better driving experience thanks to changes in the steering system and in damper technology.
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      11-09-2018, 04:57 PM   #2
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I was about to post this as well. Its a surprisingly well written article for Jalopnik. Very interesting stuff. Wish I understood it all!
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      11-09-2018, 07:00 PM   #3
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So the 800 pound gorilla in the room says how does the g20 compare to the benchmark e90 with hydraulic power steering? Also, next years g30 will need to be updated with the same geometry as the new 3 series to benefit from it.
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      11-10-2018, 01:47 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
So the 800 pound gorilla in the room says how does the g20 compare to the benchmark e90 with hydraulic power steering? Also, next years g30 will need to be updated with the same geometry as the new 3 series to benefit from it.
I wouldn't hold your breath for anything too drastic. From reviewers it sounds like a subtle improvement at best. The suspension and LSD sound promising. But without the manual, it might be time to look at the M3. With the simultaneous release of the Competition, the M3 is really just one step above the M340i.
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      11-10-2018, 09:02 AM   #5
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Was also going to post this article. Good info and well researched.

I was a bit disappointed when going from a '14 335i with Sport suspension to my current '17 340i with Adaptive. Yes, Comfort is now a bit less firm like I was hoping (more comfortable for passengers), but Sport just seems kinda "crashy" to me, without much improvement in handling. If I could do it over, I'd skip Adaptive.

New Sport dampers sound great, hope they live up to this hype. Wonder if the M340i can be had without Adaptive?

Looking forward to driving it!
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      11-10-2018, 09:05 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
So the 800 pound gorilla in the room says how does the g20 compare to the benchmark e90 with hydraulic power steering? Also, next years g30 will need to be updated with the same geometry as the new 3 series to benefit from it.
Not sure electric assist can ever feel like hydraulic steering. But if it's 10% better than F30, I'm OK with that.
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      11-10-2018, 10:06 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
So the 800 pound gorilla in the room says how does the g20 compare to the benchmark e90 with hydraulic power steering? Also, next years g30 will need to be updated with the same geometry as the new 3 series to benefit from it.
I wouldn't hold your breath for anything too drastic. From reviewers it sounds like a subtle improvement at best. The suspension and LSD sound promising. But without the manual, it might be time to look at the M3. With the simultaneous release of the Competition, the M3 is really just one step above the M340i.
Glad the LSD is finally standard. Will this be on x drives as well? Two LSDs with an LSD at the transfer case, maybe make them electronic or something like that, not sure if the mxdrive in the M5 has something like that?
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      11-10-2018, 01:19 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
So the 800 pound gorilla in the room says how does the g20 compare to the benchmark e90 with hydraulic power steering? Also, next years g30 will need to be updated with the same geometry as the new 3 series to benefit from it.
Gosh darnit this is all I care about as well.

Car & Driver just put out a review of the new Z4 and was pleased with the steering. They said the new 3er will have the same steering.

With that being said, I'm not getting my hopes up. The E90 was the gold standard that we will never see again. Consumer tastes have changed too much during the 2010s decade. It's all about comfort and badge whoring for people. That's what sells.
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      11-11-2018, 05:52 AM   #9
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I would think they could have done more than 10% better with the steering feedback and feel. A move in the right direction but would have been nice to hear something like 40 to 50% better. Like they always claim for chassis stiffness increases, year after year after year!

Here's hoping....

https://www.caranddriver.com/flipboo...-generation#10
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      11-11-2018, 09:06 AM   #10
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I’m surprised everyone is clamoring for E90 steering. I had a E90 335i RWD with 704 M Sport suspension and remember everyone complaining about the pothole explosions. It just goes to show that no one is ever happy with they have.
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      11-11-2018, 11:03 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex2364 View Post
Iím surprised everyone is clamoring for E90 steering. I had a E90 335i RWD with 704 M Sport suspension and remember everyone complaining about the pothole explosions. It just goes to show that no one is ever happy with they have.
E9x model steering wasn't suited to everyone. Too heavy for some, could be very wheel and tire sensitive, (like EPS is), suffered negative behaviour in some models. Not all examples were that precise either, some suffered mid centre vagueness. Not everyone liked servotronic.

Strange thing is, over here in Europe some E9x models had EPS, there was hardly a 'peep' of complaint about it. Some remarked on how light their steering was, and usually were questioned, "do you have HPAS or EPS?" Some users had no idea they even had EPS.
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      11-11-2018, 11:16 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooFan328i View Post
Pretty interesting stuff (although I didn't follow every bit - I will need another read!).
I'm very interested in how the new dampers work, particularly on poor roads. Could be some interesting opinions once users try them.

One thing that does come to my mind, they must be more finely tuned to the spring rate and ride height, to get the full benefit of 'Lift-Related' (position related) damping.

I can't see them working the same with lowered springs, as the working range (within the damper) is then dimensionally changed. Can envisage a strange compression stiffness on the rear, and not fully benefitting from the stiffened front rebound.

Could end up having very weird/unsettled damping characteristics, if someone lowered the car by say 25 - 30mm.

We wait to see!
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      11-11-2018, 01:48 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
The E90 was the gold standard that we will never see again.

I remember being active on these forums when the E90 came out ( I bought a new 320 in 2005 and was on here almost every day ). At the time , the E90 steering was criticized for not having any feel off center ( when you start turning it ). I'm sure you'll find some posts about it.



Anyway the point is that even the E90 was criticized heavily compared to the E46 ( dont' even started about the run flats ), and it seems like any new model will get criticism. I've learnt not to get too stressed about it until I drive the car.



Some criticism is valid - the first E90s had a terrible ride with the run flats , and the early F30s had much worse steering than later ( and not as good as E90 ) , but overall the 3 Series remains the standard.
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      11-11-2018, 02:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex2364 View Post
Iím surprised everyone is clamoring for E90 steering. I had a E90 335i RWD with 704 M Sport suspension and remember everyone complaining about the pothole explosions. It just goes to show that no one is ever happy with they have.
the pothole explosions were the runflat/stiff suspension combination, not steering related.
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      11-12-2018, 10:05 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdgatti View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex2364 View Post
I’m surprised everyone is clamoring for E90 steering. I had a E90 335i RWD with 704 M Sport suspension and remember everyone complaining about the pothole explosions. It just goes to show that no one is ever happy with they have.
the pothole explosions were the runflat/stiff suspension combination, not steering related.
I had a pothole explosion in my F30. I have 19s with run flats. It actually rides pretty well in comfort but I had it in sport.
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      11-12-2018, 11:59 AM   #16
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I wonder if the M Sport diff still as the same 30% locking or if it has been increased?
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      11-12-2018, 12:00 PM   #17
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Iím surprised everyone is clamoring for E90 steering. I had a E90 335i RWD with 704 M Sport suspension and remember everyone complaining about the pothole explosions. It just goes to show that no one is ever happy with they have.
A lot of it had to do with the horrible RFT's.
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      11-12-2018, 12:02 PM   #18
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Glad the LSD is finally standard. Will this be on x drives as well? Two LSDs with an LSD at the transfer case, maybe make them electronic or something like that, not sure if the mxdrive in the M5 has something like that?
That's a good question. BMW has been using braking for a locking effect to slow down the wheel that is spinning quickly. I'm interesting to see if anyone has an answer.
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      11-12-2018, 12:29 PM   #19
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This picture makes me shiver this in Sweden with our winters just gives me the creeps. This is just gonna get torn apart by all the road salt in Sweden.

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      11-12-2018, 12:30 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex2364 View Post
I'm surprised everyone is clamoring for E90 steering. I had a E90 335i RWD with 704 M Sport suspension and remember everyone complaining about the pothole explosions. It just goes to show that no one is ever happy with they have.
Grass is always greener

I was fine with e9x suspension and handling.

It was the grandma and grandpas that complained
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      11-12-2018, 12:34 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex2364 View Post
Iím surprised everyone is clamoring for E90 steering. I had a E90 335i RWD with 704 M Sport suspension and remember everyone complaining about the pothole explosions. It just goes to show that no one is ever happy with they have.
it's because a lot of people can't think for themselves and just copy and paste what the person before them said. the e9x was garbage if you ask me. between myself and a few friends we've had almost every iteration and none of us have ever looked bad.

e9x: 1/10 things right and it happened to be steering
f3x: 9/10 thing right and the one thing it didn't do is steering

that's the whole argument summed up.
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      11-12-2018, 12:43 PM   #22
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Adaptive dampers

"I was a bit disappointed when going from a '14 335i with Sport suspension to my current '17 340i with Adaptive. Yes, Comfort is now a bit less firm like I was hoping (more comfortable for passengers), but Sport just seems kinda "crashy" to me, without much improvement in handling. If I could do it over, I'd skip Adaptive."



It's not apples-to-apples, but Dinan's Shockware and bumpstops coupled with ACS springs made a better ride in all modes for my F31 328i xDrive. Dinan's springs have a similar rate. May be worth going that route if you don't want a full coilover swap...
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