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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G80 M3 Sedan Forum (2019+) Carsten Pries BMW M Product Head Confirms AWD and More For G80 M3

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      03-12-2019, 02:31 AM   #1
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Carsten Pries BMW M Product Head Confirms AWD and More For G80 M3

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EVO

But there is more to this story from our exclusive chat with BMW M's head of product planning...


BMW’s new M3 is scheduled to debut later this year at the Frankfurt motor show, but this hasn’t prevented Carsten Pries, BMW M’s head of product planning, confirming the powertrain that will be used to power the M division’s rival to AMG’s C63, Audi’s RS4 and Alfa’s Giulia Quadrifoglio.

Debuting in the new X3 M and X4 M SUVs is an all-new 3-litre, twin-turbocharged straight-six mated to an eight-speed double-clutch gearbox and the company’s latest xDrive all-wheel-drive system. And once the X-cars appear on the roads later this year, BMW M will turn its attention to readying the new M3 with the same powertrain. Yes, this does mean the next M3 is to be four-wheel drive. Sorry about that.

The new straight-six will, like its rival AMG V8, be offered in two states of tune: in this case 480 and 510bhp, the latter badged Competition. Both will make 442lb ft of torque, and it’s likely that, as with the X3/4 M, only Competition models will make it to the UK. And if the thought of a four-wheel-drive M3 brings a tear to your eye, try not to be too disheartened, because while the X3/4 M are fitted with an adapted M5 xDrive system but without that car’s rear-drive-only mode, the M3 will get the wizardry that allows you to send every last bhp and lb ft to the rear wheels alone.

Also carried over to the new M3 will be the latest evolution of the M5’s electronic steering that will be developed to suit the M3’s lower weight (expect it to tip the scales at around 1600kg). There will also be a more dynamic approach to its chassis set-up, achieved by fitting the latest active damper system from the M5, optimised to benefit from the M3’s new bespoke front and rear subframes. The car will also have a stiffer front strut brace and additional engine bay bracing, a principle that will also debut on the new X3/4 M models, as will all of the aforementioned hardware.

The new M3’s standard brakes will have four-piston calipers at the front with a 395mm disc, although unlike the two new M SUVs the saloon will also be available with BMW M’s latest generation of carbon-ceramic brakes. Expect 19- and 20-inch wheel options (the X3 and X4 Ms will have 20s and 21s), and Michelin’s Pilot Sport 4 S tyre as the standard offering.

The switch to xDrive and an automatic gearbox as standard for the most iconic M model isn’t great news for those of us who enjoy the art of driving as much as we do chasing tenths of a second around a lap. We understand the rationale and how such technology extends the brand appeal to those who might otherwise head to their Audi dealer, and yes, with 500-plus bhp and near on 445lb ft there are limits to what a single driven axle can manage, although AMG doesn’t feel it’s much of an issue… But, while the German power race remains all-consuming, these are the cards we are dealt. Then again, the current M5 hasn’t turned out all bad…

There could, however, be a rear-drive, manual-gearbox light at the end of the tunnel. In the past, M’s CS models have been the most powerful, quick and focused offerings, but there is a suggestion that a new M3 CS could focus less on performance and more on a purer driving experience. This would be achieved by offering a rear-drive, manual model, whose turbocharged six would produce less torque (and subsequently power, too) to preserve the gearbox’s internals, but would also shun some of the complex – and heavy – technology that burdens modern performance cars. It sounds like an M3 evo would build. Hopefully BMW will, too.
https://www.evo.co.uk/bmw/m3/20529/n...cial-new-model
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      03-12-2019, 09:57 AM   #2
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"eight-speed double-clutch gearbox"

This must be a typo...
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      03-12-2019, 09:57 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
"eight-speed double-clutch gearbox"

This must be a typo...
It is. The context of that language was in a description of the already-revealed drivetrain for the new X3/X4 M:

Quote:
Debuting in the new X3 M and X4 M SUVs is an all-new 3-litre, twin-turbocharged straight-six mated to an eight-speed double-clutch gearbox and the company’s latest xDrive all-wheel-drive system.
The only way to make the statement factually correct is to replace "double-clutch gearbox" with "ZF automatic".
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      03-12-2019, 10:35 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
"eight-speed double-clutch gearbox"

This must be a typo...
Has to be. I think they meant Eight speed ZF.
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      03-12-2019, 02:21 PM   #5
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bespoke subframes should be interesting upgrade... did the F80/F82 utilize them?
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      03-12-2019, 03:09 PM   #6
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" be a rear-drive, manual-gearbox - purer driving experience"

That's all I needed to hear
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      03-13-2019, 03:52 AM   #7
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The new M3 that is coming out seems like a let down. It'll be AWD like the big brother M5 but that = more weight. I really don't like the direction BMW is taking their M cars. Why are they switching to the AUTOMATIC 8 speed also??? They are saying it will be a faster car but at what expense? I don't want to drive a boat for a sports car like the M5.
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      03-13-2019, 08:29 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casschan86 View Post
The new M3 that is coming out seems like a let down. It'll be AWD like the big brother M5 but that = more weight. I really don't like the direction BMW is taking their M cars. Why are they switching to the AUTOMATIC 8 speed also??? They are saying it will be a faster car but at what expense? I don't want to drive a boat for a sports car like the M5.
They said the new M3 will be around 3500lbs give or take and the current M5 is over 4300lbs.
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      03-13-2019, 09:22 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
"eight-speed double-clutch gearbox"

This must be a typo...
Has to be. I think they meant Eight speed ZF.
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      03-13-2019, 09:25 AM   #10
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Do what they want, we'd like the sound from the exhaust to be significantly improved. Without the active sound gimmicks.
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      03-13-2019, 09:34 AM   #11
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What's with all the hate on AWD?

Give me a break already. Many of the super/hyper cars are AWD. The current gen M3 (competition) can't lay down all the power to the rear wheels without causing some spin. I track my car and it annoys me that after a curve I can't plant the pedal all the way down without worrying if spin (aka loss of power, loss of acceleration, loss of speed, loss of TRACTION ) will occur. Or how about the spin on a dead start...So great, 444 HP, but can't put it all down because the rear wheels can't handle it.

AWD will mean a slightly heavier car (if you are that concerned, go on a diet and change your seats to race car seats ), and it will mean all the power gets planted to the ground.

Do people not remember the 0-60 times of the 335xi vs 335i? Which was quicker? That's right, the XI. Most tracks that I go on are too short to enjoy max speed, and many have lots of curves (just the way I like them ) which means, 0-60 and 0-100 times are more important than top speed (We the People of the United States of America do not have an unrestricted highway ).

Now, if you want to complain about something: Lack of ventilated seats. When tracking my car the windows MUST be rolled down, and it's hot outside. I'd like my bootay to not be hot. Vent my BOOTAY
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      03-13-2019, 09:35 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
"eight-speed double-clutch gearbox"

This must be a typo...
I certainly hope so. I love the double clutch for track work but hate it for daily commute.
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      03-13-2019, 09:37 AM   #13
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I am all in on this! It will increase sales in the New England area and that is great news for me.
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      03-13-2019, 09:41 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casschan86 View Post
The new M3 that is coming out seems like a let down. It'll be AWD like the big brother M5 but that = more weight. I really don't like the direction BMW is taking their M cars. Why are they switching to the AUTOMATIC 8 speed also??? They are saying it will be a faster car but at what expense? I don't want to drive a boat for a sports car like the M5.
Just get an M2 with an S55. Problem solved! Smaller , rwd, manual. There you go.
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      03-13-2019, 09:44 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M-Furby View Post
What's with all the hate on AWD?

Give me a break already. Many of the super/hyper cars are AWD.
Oh really? Porsche, Ferrari, and McLaren vehemently disagree.

And ventilated seats for a car seeing the track? Sheesh, you're the anti-thesis of the performance driving demographic.

Sounds like you'd be better served by the latest Gran Turismo.
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      03-13-2019, 09:55 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M-Furby View Post
What's with all the hate on AWD?

Give me a break already. Many of the super/hyper cars are AWD. The current gen M3 (competition) can't lay down all the power to the rear wheels without causing some spin. I track my car and it annoys me that after a curve I can't plant the pedal all the way down without worrying if spin (aka loss of power, loss of acceleration, loss of speed, loss of TRACTION ) will occur. Or how about the spin on a dead start...So great, 444 HP, but can't put it all down because the rear wheels can't handle it.

AWD will mean a slightly heavier car (if you are that concerned, go on a diet and change your seats to race car seats ), and it will mean all the power gets planted to the ground.

Do people not remember the 0-60 times of the 335xi vs 335i? Which was quicker? That's right, the XI. Most tracks that I go on are too short to enjoy max speed, and many have lots of curves (just the way I like them ) which means, 0-60 and 0-100 times are more important than top speed (We the People of the United States of America do not have an unrestricted highway ).

Now, if you want to complain about something: Lack of ventilated seats. When tracking my car the windows MUST be rolled down, and it's hot outside. I'd like my bootay to not be hot. Vent my BOOTAY
I agree. Especially, when you can send all the power to the rear wheels. I can't believe you put that porker on the track?
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      03-13-2019, 09:55 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6ixSpd View Post
Oh really? Porsche, Ferrari, and McLaren vehemently disagree.

And ventilated seats for a car seeing the track? Sheesh, you're the anti-thesis of the performance driving demographic.

Sounds like you'd be better served by the latest Gran Turismo.
Oh really? Let's see about that

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...ive-supercars/

Road and Track
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Some of the greatest supercars on earth use all-wheel drive for superior traction and outrageous acceleration. Here are some of our favorites.
I'll bold the brands you named
  • Merc AMG One
  • Bugatti EB110 and Veyron
  • Jaguar F-Type SVR (ok this is a stretch)
  • Lambo Huracan Performante (which the RWD is not even as desirable as the AWD) and Aventador SVJ
  • Porsche 918 Spyder - This one is also hybrid nad 911 Turbo S
  • Acura NSX
  • Ferrari GTC4Lusso
  • Nissan GT-R

Also McLaren are doing this research
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a1...-alternatives/
Quote:
While McLaren has been one of the holdouts so far, preferring the dynamic purity and lower mass of rear-wheel-drive systems, the company is now contemplating an all-wheel driven future. If it happens, though, it’s some considerable way off.

“We’re not there yet, but I’d say we’re getting close to the limit,” CEO Mike Flewitt told us at the Goodwood Festival of Speed—coincidentally while standing next to the McLaren 720S (photo above), which sends its peak 710 horsepower entirely through the rear axle. “We’re not planning [all wheel drive] right now, but we’re conscious it’s a direction that we may well want to go in.”

As for being comfortable, if you would prefer to drive a car that feels like this, then knock yourself out. I don't like sweating in my seat while on the race track. And unless you ripped out all seats, but the driver seat, from your M3, and replaced drivers seat with a race seat, and then ripped out every single other non-essential (radio, AC, monitor, carpets, headlights, side windows, etc) then don't talk to me about weight reduction.
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      03-13-2019, 09:56 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haywood View Post
I agree. Especially, when you can send all the power to the rear wheels. I can't believe you put that porker on the track?
I can't believe you sold your e90 m3. what's wrong with you!
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      03-13-2019, 09:57 AM   #19
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Can't wait! Performance of the Competition will be out of this world and a huge step up from the F82. Bring it on, I am all for it. Of course rear wheel drive is more "pure", but still, I have all my trust into M to give the G8x the same spirit that the F90 has. And the Competition F90 is one hell of a performer.

I don't think that AWD and DCT/8HP will add any weight. I think we are talking about the same weight. M will get it done.
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      03-13-2019, 09:59 AM   #20
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I want the G80 MT so bad, this waiting is killing me
Having second taught on M2 CS
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      03-13-2019, 10:03 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casschan86 View Post
The new M3 that is coming out seems like a let down. It'll be AWD like the big brother M5 but that = more weight. I really don't like the direction BMW is taking their M cars. Why are they switching to the AUTOMATIC 8 speed also??? They are saying it will be a faster car but at what expense? I don't want to drive a boat for a sports car like the M5.
Doesn't F1 use paddle shifters?

Some people are really struggling with technology and the future aren't they?

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      03-13-2019, 10:13 AM   #22
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I want the G80 MT so bad, this waiting is killing me
Having second taught on M2 CS
BTW, come join www.mgruppe.org. Over 2k members nationwide (and some abroad). Not sure if we have a ton of members in Wisconsin, but gotta start somewhere, and it looks like you are from there
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