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      03-13-2020, 02:13 PM   #1
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BMW will cut up to 50% of traditional drivetrain variations from 2021

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On the product side, up to 50 per cent of traditional drivetrain variants will be eliminated from 2021 onwards in the transition to creating enhanced, intelligent vehicle architectures in favour of additional electrified drivetrains.
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      03-13-2020, 02:34 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...ed?language=en
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On the product side, up to 50 per cent of traditional drivetrain variants will be eliminated from 2021 onwards in the transition to creating enhanced, intelligent vehicle architectures in favour of additional electrified drivetrains.
For the timing being, I keep enjoying close encounters with vehicle architectures of the unintelligent kind.
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      03-13-2020, 04:35 PM   #3
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I wonder how they are coming up with the 50% number. Is it every possible variant including 2wd and 4wd? At the moment you've got:

UKL platform which still has some older ~2014 released Minis has 15 variants:

B38 6MT fwd/4wd
B38 7DCT fwd
B38 6AT fwd plus electric motor at rear
B48 6MT fwd/4wd
B48 7DCT
B48 8AT 4wd

B37 6MT fwd/4wd
B37 7DCT fwd
B37 6AT 4wd
B47 6MT fwd/4wd
B47 8AT 4wd

CLAR platform G platform only (ignoring the F22, F32 as they are effectively EOL) has 17 variants:

B48 6MT rwd
B48 8AT rwd/4wd
B48 8AT rwd/4wd plus electric motor
B58 8AT rwd/4wd
S58 8AT 4wd
B58 8AT 4wd plus electric motor
N63 8AT 4wd
S63 8AT 4wd
N74 8AT rwd/4wd

B47 8AT rwd/4wd
B57 8AT rwd/4wd

What do you kill? We know the N74 is going away, perhaps the B37 will go away and the 7DCT in UKL might go away too, plus removal of some of the 6MT UKL variants as the old Mini chassis gets replaced. If you look at the F40 for example you only get 8 variants. That counts as about 50% of the variants being deleted already.

B38 6MT fwd
B38 7DCT fwd
B48 8AT 4wd

B37 6MT fwd
B37 7DCT fwd
B47 6MT fwd
B47 8AT fwd
B47 8AT 4wd
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      03-14-2020, 09:48 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad850csi View Post
I wonder how they are coming up with the 50% number.
I don’t know, but I appreciate you taking the time to list all current combinations. It gets even more complicated if we consider engine variants such as (and these aren’t all of them, just the ones I know off the top of my head) the B48 M1, O1, T1; B58 M1, O1; N63 M3, T3.

I think they’ve already said the three cylinder diesel (B37) and quad turbo six cylinder diesel (B57 S0) are ending production by next year. So those are definitely part of the 50%.

And do they still sell a G11 or G12 M760i with RWD in some regions? Not sure, but as you point out, we know it’s gone once the G70 arrives.

I suspect that you’re correct in concluding that a lot of this will come from the legacy UKL configurations that are soon to go away. Although, one wonders if the new MINI platform, which will no longer be shared with BMW, will end up adding some back in. Perhaps those are not being included. I suspect all vehicles on the platform will be PHEV or BEV anyway, so probably no diesels and probably no manual transmissions either.
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      03-14-2020, 10:01 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I suspect that you're correct in concluding that a lot of this will come from the legacy UKL configurations that are soon to go away. Although, one wonders if the new MINI platform, which will no longer be shared with BMW, will end up adding some back in. Perhaps those are not being included. I suspect all vehicles on the platform will be PHEV or BEV anyway, so probably no diesels.
Considering press releases are just marketing spin for the most part I am sure to "exaggerate" for a nice round 50% soundbyte they lumped in any variant going away.... for example the b58 versions in the m240 and f32 440 are technically different so they can count the 6 speed manual variant in both rwd and xdrive separately for each platform

Point being 1 strategic decision (eliminate B58/6speed)= 4 "drivetrains" cut
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      03-14-2020, 10:18 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xlover View Post
Considering press releases are just marketing spin for the most part I am sure to "exaggerate" for a nice round 50% soundbyte they lumped in any variant going away.... for example the b58 versions in the m240 and f32 440 are technically different so they can count the 6 speed manual variant in both rwd and xdrive separately for each platform
Yes. Although I failed to mention it in my post, I think it’s safe to assume that the legacy products that you and brad850csi mention are part of it too. I’m not sure they are splitting hairs as far as you postulate - both products you mention, for example, use the same B58B30M0 legacy engine, it’s just slightly different ECU tuning for each - but certainly the exiting F22, F23, F32, F33, F36, F82, F83, and F87 will account for a lot of shedded redundancy with today’s newer B48 TU, B58 TU, and S58 drivetrains.

If we look forward to 2022 and beyond, which will start the next generation of BMW products (beginning with the G70 7 Series), I think we’ll see even further reduction. One wonders if the N63 might be phased out at some point during said generation and replaced by the upcoming B58-based M45e high performance PHEV drivetrain.
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      03-14-2020, 10:19 AM   #7
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And people wonder why ratty E46's are going up in value???

Mark my words the NA BMW straight sixes (N52/51) will be remembered as icons of an era and will be in demand as the "modern" cars become cost prohibitive to run...not to mention not having any soul.

That being said. Fix the range and recharge time (or just give me the gas/ diesel onboard efficient charger..ie REx) and put it in a simple sports car chassis and I am in with electric.
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      03-14-2020, 11:21 AM   #8
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I can see diesel engines being eliminated over time, their place taken by electric motors. I see this in both Europe and North America. Europe will favorably tax electric vehicles through CO2 legislation, and North America will generally let the market prevail, with some consumers choosing a low CO2 and high "fuel efficiency" solution.

Gasoline engine future is not clear to me. When a technology, such as internal combustion, is threatened, the status quo works even harder to preserve it. I was attending conferences in the 1990s when the "death knell" of IC engines was claimed to have started. ICEs are still here, and will be for some time. Many billions of dollars are invested and many thousands of jobs are connected to IC engine design and manufacturing. ICE power density, fuel efficiency and emissions output is better than ever in history.

In North America, those who tow boats, RVs and such, and those who travel long distances regularly, likely will stick with ICEs until the bitter end.

Fully electric vehicles have a long way to go, possibly decades, to achieve the same level of performance on every measuring stick, vs ICE engines+fuel tanks.

Drivetrain (transmission and fwd/rwd/awd/4wd) is not germane to this discussion in my view. The industry is experiencing change in propulsion and energy storage technologies. Transferring torque to the tire-ground contact patch is a distant secondary consideration.

Last edited by chassis; 03-14-2020 at 09:12 PM..
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      03-14-2020, 08:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I don’t know, but I appreciate you taking the time to list all current combinations. It gets even more complicated if we consider engine variants such as (and these aren’t all of them, just the ones I know off the top of my head) the B48 M1, O1, T1; B58 M1, O1; N63 M3, T3.

I think they’ve already said the three cylinder diesel (B37) and quad turbo six cylinder diesel (B57 S0) are ending production by next year. So those are definitely part of the 50%.

And do they still sell a G11 or G12 M760i with RWD in some regions? Not sure, but as you point out, we know it’s gone once the G70 arrives.

I suspect that you’re correct in concluding that a lot of this will come from the legacy UKL configurations that are soon to go away. Although, one wonders if the new MINI platform, which will no longer be shared with BMW, will end up adding some back in. Perhaps those are not being included. I suspect all vehicles on the platform will be PHEV or BEV anyway, so probably no diesels and probably no manual transmissions either.
All G12 M760Li are 4wd but some Rollers are still rwd.

I'm not sure when the new Mini will be coming but as they just launched the new Mini-E and I haven't heard anything you'd assume it is at least 3 years away. I didn't realise the new platform was going to be unique for them. If that is the case then why do we have to put up with the UKL cars....sigh.
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      03-14-2020, 08:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
If we look forward to 2022 and beyond, which will start the next generation of BMW products (beginning with the G70 7 Series), I think well see even further reduction. One wonders if the N63 might be phased out at some point during said generation and replaced by the upcoming B58-based M45e high performance PHEV drivetrain.
That talk about the 600hp i6 drivetrain made me wonder about the V8 but there was talk of an N68/S68 coming so perhaps it has one update to come (with 48v?)
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      03-15-2020, 03:03 AM   #11
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BMW Group Cutting 50 Percent Of 'Traditional Drivetrain Variants'

By: Christopher Smith

Quote:
It seems BMW Group is ready to go all-in for hybrid and fully electric vehicles. The German automaker released a wealth of financial info today, marking the end of its 2019 financial year with news that profits were up. Revenues for the group – which includes BMW’s auto and motorcycle divisions as well as Mini and Rolls-Royce – exceeded €100 billion for the first time in its history. Briefly mentioned in the lengthy press release, however, was word that powertrain changes were coming to half of BMW Group’s current offerings, and the revolution kicks off next year.

Specifically, the press release says:
Quote:
On the product side, up to 50 per cent of traditional drivetrain variants will be eliminated from 2021 onwards in the transition to creating enhanced, intelligent vehicle architectures – in favor of additional electrified drivetrains.
What exactly does this mean? The announcement doesn’t spell out details on specific models, but the shift to electrification is clear. Starting in 2021, BMW will take larger steps to transition from internal-combustion drivetrain systems to hybrid and electric systems. That doesn’t mean half of its current models will disappear in the coming years, though a thinning of the fleet is certainly likely. It should also be noted that this applies to the BMW Group, not just BMW proper.

BMW’s electric transformation is already underway. The i3 is expected to endure through at least 2024, and the Mini Cooper SE is available now. The iX3 SUV should go on sale next year in Europe, and BMW recently revealed its i4 Concept that closely previews the production model slated to debut in 2021. And of course, there’s the iNext SUV that should appear next year as well. The i3 is its own vehicle, but the other models have close ties to gasoline-powered siblings in BMW’s lineup. Going by BMW’s own words, it's possible the days could be numbered for those internal-combustion variants.
BMW Group Cutting 50 Percent Of 'Traditional Drivetrain Variants'
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      03-15-2020, 09:05 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad850csi View Post
That talk about the 600hp i6 drivetrain made me wonder about the V8 but there was talk of an N68/S68 coming so perhaps it has one update to come (with 48v?)
Strictly speaking, I think we have only heard about the S68. We presume an N68 to be in the mix too, but I dont think it has been outed yet, at least not by our insiders. Even if it does come, it may yet only be a stopgap. Hopefully we get more information about the drivetrain plans for the G70 soon.
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      03-15-2020, 12:42 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Strictly speaking, I think we have only heard about the S68. We presume an N68 to be in the mix too, but I dont think it has been outed yet, at least not by our insiders. Even if it does come, it may yet only be a stopgap. Hopefully we get more information about the drivetrain plans for the G70 soon.
Ahh yes you're right. Perhaps the X5 45e style drivetrain gets bumped up to meet most needs but the S68 provides power to the LCI M8 and perhaps next gen M5?


I also just realised I completely missed the B47 single and twin turbo plus B57 single, twin, quad turbo variants. I guess we know the quad is already dead.
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      03-16-2020, 01:46 PM   #14
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I'm sure anything bigger than v8 is gone. We will probably be looking at either Electric, hybrid, and some 2L and 4 bangers. or maybe an eco v6 or v8 if we're lucky.
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      03-16-2020, 01:48 PM   #15
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And before you know it it will be all Electric cars
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      03-16-2020, 02:00 PM   #16
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If none of you have driven the Model 3 Performance (I have), you owe it to yourself to see just what it feels like to drive a sporty electric car. I have an E90 M3 ZCP and will be making the move to electric. Absolutely shocking how quick and feature packed the car is. Sure, I'll miss my M but recognize what the future will be, and after getting a taste of it, I'm joining the pack.
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      03-16-2020, 02:07 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkNuts View Post
If none of you have driven the Model 3 Performance (I have), you owe it to yourself to see just what it feels like to drive a sporty electric car. I have an E90 M3 ZCP and will be making the move to electric. Absolutely shocking how quick and feature packed the car is. Sure, I'll miss my M but recognize what the future will be, and after getting a taste of it, I'm joining the pack.
Very true, but it is analogous to the shift to all electronic sounds, vocals, and devices in the music industry vs. good old instruments (guitars, drums, etc) and REAL vocals (no autotune). The new stuff is accurate and quick to reproduce, but it loses the authenticity and experience of the old analog stuff.
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      03-16-2020, 02:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebmw View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkNuts View Post
If none of you have driven the Model 3 Performance (I have), you owe it to yourself to see just what it feels like to drive a sporty electric car. I have an E90 M3 ZCP and will be making the move to electric. Absolutely shocking how quick and feature packed the car is. Sure, I'll miss my M but recognize what the future will be, and after getting a taste of it, I'm joining the pack.
Very true, but it is analogous to the shift to all electronic sounds, vocals, and devices in the music industry vs. good old instruments (guitars, drums, etc) and REAL vocals (no autotune). The new stuff is accurate and quick to reproduce, but it loses the authenticity and experience of the old analog stuff.
I drove P100D and I must say it's wicked fast but I could pull the trigger.

Just to quiet for me and even stock ///M is not enough for me and I end up changing the exhaust on every one of them.

Need to have enjoyment
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      03-16-2020, 03:05 PM   #19
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      03-16-2020, 03:13 PM   #20
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I wonder what people will do when they will realize that the electric car is far from what is pictured for all the sheep in the flock.
Good luck and stay healthy. You gonna need it!
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      03-16-2020, 03:20 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkNuts View Post
If none of you have driven the Model 3 Performance (I have), you owe it to yourself to see just what it feels like to drive a sporty electric car. I have an E90 M3 ZCP and will be making the move to electric. Absolutely shocking how quick and feature packed the car is. Sure, I'll miss my M but recognize what the future will be, and after getting a taste of it, I'm joining the pack.
My problem with the Model 3 performance is not the performance. The quality of the interior is just a turn off for me on all Tesla's especially in the back seat where it feels like a Civic.

I know its silly but man I spend a lot of time in the car and if I am spending $65k for a Model 3 or $100k for a Model S Performance I don't want it to feel so down market inside.

Driving them is another factor, I purely enjoyed driving the Model 3 Performance.
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      03-16-2020, 03:45 PM   #22
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All modular engines - B48, B58 - will most likely be retained since this architecture already provides cost savings by design.

Manual transmission - in danger.

V12 is also at risk unless 2 B58 engines can be joined together in a cost effective manner.

Same with V8.

The only constant is change.
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