01-19-2019, 01:18 PM | #155 | ||
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Do YOU know of another sedan with MT you want to go to? At least BMW seems like they want to try and cater to those who want a manual. If currently that's only feasible to them cost- and effort-wise by capping power to be able to use readily available "clutch-ware", is that so offensive to you? Because I can just imagine the comments if a manual wasn't offered at all. People would be all over saying all kinds of sh1t about how they don't even care about the power increase but just wish there was a manual even if the power wasn't as high as it is. Watered down? So if it has a slightly lower power output, but in turn you get a lighter "stripped down" "pure" car with a manual transmission that's watered down and you wouldn't even touch it with a stick? Can we decide here what we want? Is having only an AT M3 more watered down for you where the "car does everything for you" (guess we all could/should be top-tier racing drivers since the car does everything anyway), or is having a MT M3 available but with less power the worse scenario? Like I believe somebody wrote above, maybe BMW is indeed trying to tell you to put your money where your mouth is. If they see there's a demand, the next iteration may just come at full power. I also like the comments about how they'd up and get a manual, IF ONLY they weren't daily commuting here or there. Your peace of mind that you must be able to say there's a manual M3, while you damn well know and even say you're not going to opt for the MT version isn't going to help BMW see it's worth the cost to keep/make it a reality "on a large scale". |
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01-19-2019, 02:35 PM | #156 | |
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I may have considered the Xdrive for winter use, but 4doors and 6MT is a great combo no matter the packaging. |
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01-19-2019, 02:43 PM | #157 |
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I think the Pure concept sounds awesome. I'll never buy one because I'm a paddles guy now but the Pure car should be great. So it's down a smidge in power. It's still 444 hp or some such large number with boatloads of torque and will likely weight a fair bit less than the auto AWD car. What if it comes in at 3400 lbs? That would be great! Sounds like the car so many manual purists keep asking for.
For me, I'm just excited for an M AWD system. I had an M235xi which I think was the best all around small car ever but it lacked excitement. BMW really knows how to create a rear biased AWD in a balanced chassis, unlike Audi. >400 torque is so much better with all four wheels driven unless you just like burnouts. |
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01-19-2019, 02:48 PM | #158 | |
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"And if how some people here react is any real indication of the majority reaction (doubtful), we'll see if they will in the future..." I'm aware we as the whole forum aren't a majority representation of the market, and also that the negative side is usually more vocal. You know where you stand, so read it accordingly. I've no problem with AT fans, MT fans, or people in the middle who appreciate both (hi). Everybody has their preferences and the reasons behind them. But it gets funny when the underlying values to their arguments suddenly shift once they're "fulfilled" so that they can continue to complain about some other aspect some more. Wishing you patience until you get your hand on your new great combo down the line. |
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01-19-2019, 02:54 PM | #159 |
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Agree. It's not just how fast the dual clutch is/was. It's also how it feels. You were able to get the benefits of an automated manual along with the feel of a manual transmission. I love my M2 DCT for this reason. Even if the ZF is almost as fast, it won't feel the same.
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01-19-2019, 04:49 PM | #160 |
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I get the people that track their cars wanting a DCT or quality automatic as clearly that provides them the best ability to improve their times. But find it really sad that there are still people who just drive this car and are ribbing the manual folks. Chasing magazine numbers is useless. DD Cars are just more interesting with manuals.
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01-19-2019, 05:32 PM | #161 | |
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I think more choice is great - but man - people need to keep their expectations within realistic bounds. And besides - I'm sure a G80 pure manual is going to be faster in all performance metrics than my '18 ZCP - but yet I still haven't gotten tired of how fast and how well-handling my car is. I agree with the other posters above - BMW could have followed the lead of all other sports sedans in the same or similar market and abandoned the 6MT altogether for the G8x generation (willing to bet the G8x will be the last generation to offer the 6MT)... |
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01-19-2019, 07:47 PM | #162 |
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I’ll say it again, as long as I can appoint some luxury options in a “paired down” version of the M3, specifically a Heads Up Display, AND, the exterior styling that distinguishes the Pure from the AT levels is nice, I will be happy.
But even if I’m not happy I’ll buy the car. |
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01-19-2019, 08:24 PM | #163 |
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I believe it started with the B58, N63TU, S63TU, all within the past 2 years.
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01-19-2019, 08:37 PM | #164 |
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Too bad. The ZF 8 speed is so much better than any dual clutch. It's just that amazing. It propels the M5 to 60 in just 2.7 seconds! And the shifting is perfect.
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01-19-2019, 08:39 PM | #165 | |
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01-19-2019, 10:18 PM | #166 | ||
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“Feel” is subjective. I’ve never been in a car that had any form of a ZF that I liked in any respect, much less preferred over a DCT. It is so boring that I can’t imagine ever owning one. In fact, my next car will be either an M2C, M3CS, or a P car because I refuse to put up with that sort of expensive in any car.
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01-20-2019, 12:28 AM | #168 | |
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The issue I have with ZFat is its maximum allowable rpm is rated around 7,300 rpm and hates to rev that high in the first place. Most people just short shift around 6,500 rpm because of torque band which is not really ideal on track applications where you want more free rpm in downshifts. Ever wonder why ZFat refuses to downshift fast while braking? Because the shift logic tries to protect going "too high of rpm" which otherwise would not be a problem on DCT. Downshifts are noticeably smoother and more instant on DCT for this reason (logic allows that because transmission can take it to 9000 rpm!). Upshifts are fine on both transmissions, although paddle response is marginally better on DCT. It's ridiculous, the "torque logic" behind BMW ///Marketing. Their current M-DCT is rated around 530 ft lbs which is more than adequate to be used on M3/4 Pure models or standard ones, should they care to develop with AWD. And with the plausible discontinuation of CFRP driveshafts starting G8x , they are basically charging few grands more for less goodies. I have a feeling that this standard model on RWD mode will corner like a boat compared to F8x due to heavier front end....
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01-20-2019, 12:59 AM | #169 | |
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01-20-2019, 07:01 AM | #170 |
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Pure is stupid name but apart from that I like the concept of a lower powered manual version.
The car world is too hung up on chasing numbers and cars are just getting silly fast now. Less is more.
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01-20-2019, 09:21 AM | #173 |
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01-20-2019, 11:20 AM | #174 | ||||
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I'm beyond happy with my 6mt f80 nicely optioned. I need a sunroof, leather, great sound system 4 doors and 400+HP A replacement M3 would need superior ride quality to my current M3 and be faster. One without the other is no good. The new M2 seems to be the real deal performance car. I always thought Straight pipes were corny although I have high respect for their reviews. The review they did on the M2 was stellar. Looking forward to seeing the new M3 |
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01-20-2019, 11:57 AM | #175 | ||
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